C&C "Kits"

[paladinn]

Hola all,

I was looking over how classes ended up being handled in 5e and in 3e. In 5e there are subclasses which in several cases are where the character definition actually takes place. It was really WotC's attempt at tamping-down multiclassing. Why multiclass when you can pick a subclass that gets you a lot of other class' features anyway? Personally I prefer the C&C "class-and-a-half" concept. If you're a fighter who dreams of being a rogue, you can do it.

In 3e, there were no subclasses. Basically any character concept became its own full class. Or you could multiclass. Or go into a prestige class. The possibilities were overwhelming, and toward the end of 3e and into PF, pretty crazy-pants.

I see C&C as a means of bringing "modern" mechanics to a 2e-type game, and it is awesome! The failed Myth & Magic game was much the same; but see the "failed" remark. All that said, I would love to see some attempt at "kits" ala 2e. The concept is pretty straightforward, and is kind of foreshadowed by TLG's publications that mention "exchanging" class features.

Maybe eventually we will see some sort of splatbook with these things elaborated. (And no, I'm not talking about Adventurers Backpack - questionable at best). In the meantime, does anyone have any kits they've developed or allowed? What core class features do you see traded-out?

Gracias!

[serleran]

Class abilities are not always as easy as swapping 1:1 - rogue/thief skills, generally, yes, but back stab is not the same as picking locks. So, I recommend not doing an easy switch like that but, rather, build the class like it was actually new... this means it ends up with its own XP table. However, as far as I know, the mechanics behind this have not been officially revealed leaving it completely open as to how it is done eventually leading directly to the "try it out" method.

Anyway, one of my favorites was a pompadour which was a paladin-like bard but gained followers much, much faster starting with just hangers-on, to groupies, to followers, to cultists. The idea was based on Elvis Presley, so, yeah, at like level 10, it got some monk fighting abilities that were mostly useless at that point.

[Fizz]

All that said, I would love to see some attempt at "kits" ala 2e. The concept is pretty straightforward, and is kind of foreshadowed by TLG's publications that mention "exchanging" class features.

Why not just use 2nd Ed kits? Most of them provide simple bonuses under specific circumstances, or an extra weapon proficiency, etc, nothing that upsets balance. Rarely do the extras emulate another class's abilities, and when they do there is usually a hindrance as well. All that is easily tweakable.

Just don't fall into the fallacy that 2nd Ed did, where some kits were so extensively modified that they should have been their own new class. The Sha'ir from Arabian Adventures in a notable example- great concept, but it's a new class, not a kit.

-Fizz

[paladinn]

All that said, I would love to see some attempt at "kits" ala 2e. The concept is pretty straightforward, and is kind of foreshadowed by TLG's publications that mention "exchanging" class features.

Why not just use 2nd Ed kits? Most of them provide simple bonuses under specific circumstances, or an extra weapon proficiency, etc, nothing that upsets balance. Rarely do the extras emulate another class's abilities, and when they do there is usually a hindrance as well. All that is easily tweakable.

Just don't fall into the fallacy that 2nd Ed did, where some kits were so extensively modified that they should have been their own new class. The Sha'ir from Arabian Adventures in a notable example- great concept, but it's a new class, not a kit.

-Fizz

Copy that. I just wondered if/what someone else might have come up with, or if there is some compilation of such.

[anvil242]

Ahh, kits. I have fond memories of my gnome professor, Regis Angus Knowclu, who invented a bowling ball making machine that was later subverted into destroying his home town. What fun