Your Take on PC Hit Points

[JediOre]

We do this primarily because of our fairly lethal crit system, which even things out quite a bit. In a recent game a 2 HD ungern did over 40 points of damage to a 6th level PC due to good critical rolls. And, as many have noted, monsters often have multiple attacks, increasing their chances to get that crit. Higher level monsters often do more damage, so theoretically a single hit from a giant might do over 100 points of damage with a crit, killing even a high level PC, which makes sense when you think about it. And since I started this method the players have universally liked it, so we keep the criticals because it adds some drama and tension. It has not resulted in OP characters that can't be slain for sure. In fact, the deaths have been more meaningful and memorable. And I prefer combat-heavy games so this also meshes with that.

Wow! That is a rough critical hit system. Well, if that is how you guys like it, my approach to hit points would insure few would ever make it to even third level. Do what you got to do to make the game fun for everyone at the table.

[Persimmon]

We do this primarily because of our fairly lethal crit system, which even things out quite a bit. In a recent game a 2 HD ungern did over 40 points of damage to a 6th level PC due to good critical rolls. And, as many have noted, monsters often have multiple attacks, increasing their chances to get that crit. Higher level monsters often do more damage, so theoretically a single hit from a giant might do over 100 points of damage with a crit, killing even a high level PC, which makes sense when you think about it. And since I started this method the players have universally liked it, so we keep the criticals because it adds some drama and tension. It has not resulted in OP characters that can't be slain for sure. In fact, the deaths have been more meaningful and memorable. And I prefer combat-heavy games so this also meshes with that.

Wow! That is a rough critical hit system. Well, if that is how you guys like it, my approach to hit points would insure few would ever make it to even third level. Do what you got to do to make the game fun for everyone at the table.

Actually the party was cruising along and the ungern hit with a polearm for 11 points of damage and the crit roll quadrupled that. The character survived, but it was definitely a wake-up call. Of course we've also had foes roll quadruple damage after doing say, 2 hp of damage. Not nearly so harrowing. So it can vary a lot.

[Persimmon]

I think a lot of the desire for more hit points stems from the desire to "win" the game; they must defeat every monster in heroic fashion. But it is meant to be a role-playing game. How do you portray such a character?

Consider, suppose you created a fighter, with good strength and con scores. You go to roll hit points... 1. So with their good Con they have 4 total hit points. Most people would say "ugh". But instead of being disappointed, use it to define your character. In this case, maybe the fighter is strong and skilled, but has an underlying health condition, such as brittle bones or low lung capacity. Think of the portrayal of Ivar the Boneless from the series Vikings.

Low scores / hit points, etc are not detriments, they are roleplaying opportunities.


-Fizz

True, but in that scenario, if the PC survives the first couple levels, things will likely even out over time. However, I totally agree on using ability scores (and primes) as a way to inspire roleplaying and character development. I'll add that one of the reasons I like the Siege Engine is because it makes every ability score matter. There are no true dump stats.

[Brick Hardslab]

So for a long time I (and pretty much everyone I played with) just calculated hit points RAW. Sure, it was lethal, especially at the low levels, but we scoffed at those who claimed they rolled max (or close to it) every time and had huge HP totals. But when I discovered Hackmaster 4e, which gives all PCs (and monsters) a 20 HP "Kicker" at 1st level level and uses the concept of exploding dice, I changed and adopted that for awhile. For B/X we just had a 10 HP kicker and no crits. Then I changed and started using different additional rolls for HP at first level depending on whether the class is martial, semi-martial, or non-martial. I liked the randomness but you could still end up with just 2 HP. But we always followed the old school method of having HP rolls stop around 10th level and just adding the flat number in the rulebook.

But recently I switched to each character getting a HP bonus at character creation equal to their total constitution score, added to the roll & Con modifier, if applicable. And for our upcoming Undermountain campaign I think I'm going to go a step further and adopt the (yikes) 5e practice of having characters just keep rolling as normal every level with the Con bonus, in addition to the aforementioned kicker.

I like the bonus at 1st level because it cuts down a bit on random deaths from minor injuries but over time if the rolls are legit, the PCs aren't necessarily much more powerful. Plus, we do have a pretty brutal house-ruled crit system. And any single attack causing over 50 points of damage requires a Con check or you die from trauma. So does every resurrection and you lose 1 point of Con permanently every time you die. Haven't decided if I'll bring back exploding dice yet, though we did use those for healing too.

Just out of curiosity, any particular tweaks you have for rolling character hit points?

I've used this method once or twice. My hitters tend not to like it. Even though they die less, they enjoy living dangerously I guess. My squishy types are more happy with the boost but only grouse a bit if we don't go that direction. I like it because nobody should die in an alley fight with a raccoon or possum.

[maximus]

Does any/everyone allow adding Con bonus for levels after L10?

Absolutely. I assumed everyone did.

[JediOre]

I am in agreement with Maximus. I thought it was just a given to add the constitution modifier to a PC's hit points after level ten. Been doing that since AD&D back in the '80s. It that not an actual rule in C&C?

[Fizz]

I am in agreement with Maximus. I thought it was just a given to add the constitution modifier to a PC's hit points after level ten. Been doing that since AD&D back in the '80s. It that not an actual rule in C&C?

2nd ed AD&D specifically says that characters do not add their Con bonus for levels after their maximum hit dice (either 9th or 10th depending on class). Because 2nd ed did it this way, i think that was the intent in 1st ed as well. And this is how i've always done it, both then and now.

However, by the book, in C&C does add Con bonus to levels after maximum hit dice. See the Hit Points section in the PH (page 178 in the 6th printing).

Personally, i prefer the AD&D 2nd method because it better models a character reaching physical limits. Compared to AD&D, C&C already gives a larger raw bonus (+4 for a fighter, compared to +3 in AD&D). The addition of the Con bonus means it's nearly identical to any other level (on average). That is, on average 4 + Con bonus differs from 1d10 + Con bonus by only 1.5. There's hardly any difference when that changeover occurs, so what's the point of even having it?

It's like the Trolls were trying to walk the line between AD&D and 3E. The result is a rule that doesn't do much.


-Fizz

[paladinn]

It's like the Trolls were trying to walk the line between AD&D and 3E.

That's like the entire game.

[Fizz]

It's like the Trolls were trying to walk the line between AD&D and 3E.

That's like the entire game.

In the sense that it's ad&d inspired with 3e-esque mechanics, sure. But in this case i just meant that they tried a hybrid rule: a single rule made up of mechanics from both ad&d and 3e.

-Fizz

[Persimmon]

Yeah, we never added the Con bonus to HP after level 10 back in the day. And I only recently realized that RAW you do that in C&C. Our highest level party hasn't gotten that far yet anyhow.

[paladinn]

This from the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia, p12:

Constitution adjustments to hit points apply
only to the Hit Dice the player rolls; they do not
apply to the hit points added at higher levels.

Oh, and this from the C&C PHB, p18:

The constitution modifier is added to,
or subtracted from, the result whenever hit points are rolled.

That said, I think I want to add the Con bonus anyway. But I'm just contrary..lol

[Fizz]

Oh, and this from the C&C PHB, p18:
The constitution modifier is added to,
or subtracted from, the result whenever hit points are rolled.
That said, I think I want to add the Con bonus anyway. But I'm just contrary..lol

The reference above does not prohibit adding the modifier after 10th. But the section on Hit Points (page 178 in PH 6th printing) specifically says to add Con bonus.
So if you want to be contrary, then you should not add the Con bonus after 10th onward. Heh.

-Fizz

[paladinn]

I was looking at the 7th printing. But you're right, the HP section does indeed mention adding the Con bonus after L10. Interesting since the previous entry mentions adding "whenever hit points are rolled." No one rolls after L10.

What Troll Lord could do with a decent editor..

[Persimmon]

Yeah, it's on p. 223 in the latest printing. But you could always just keep rolling like they do in later editions of D&D. We're going to just start doing that.

[GameOgre]

My top secret way is to use HP RAW.

Be all HARDCORE and tough love.

Then make a crapload of things for pc's to spend money on that raise hit point totals. (but never over max). I had magical fruit that cost a BUNDLE but raised hit points perm by 3 points. Magical elixir's that cost a lot (and took a lot of time and rare ingrediencies to make) that raised hit point hit points perm by 1 point ect...

I believe in giving pc's a LOT of things to spend money on. I want them to use that money like crazy and always be wanting/needing more.

[Go0gleplex]

Resurrection Insurance! Cost us 1000 gp initially. If we died, the premium rose to 5000 gp....then 10000 gp...and so forth. Was guaranteed the first time as long as there was at least a finger or toe sized body part to recover. Otherwise...they threw a nice funeral party and had ya reincarnated. And boy...did our DM make it necessary!

[Persimmon]

Resurrection Insurance! Cost us 1000 gp initially. If we died, the premium rose to 5000 gp....then 10000 gp...and so forth. Was guaranteed the first time as long as there was at least a finger or toe sized body part to recover. Otherwise...they threw a nice funeral party and had ya reincarnated. And boy...did our DM make it necessary!

My players just aren't that attached to their characters for the most part. Resurrection is allowed, but if they're far from someplace with a high level cleric, they usually just bury the body and leave them dead. Plus, I always make the PC in question make a Con check to survive the process. On multiple occasions, they failed the check and died anyhow.

[Go0gleplex]

It was just a funny gimmick. Like being able to rent a 'Staff of Healing' in his games. Cost you 100 gp per day...but you'd have three first level clerics with 2 Cure Light Wounds spells each following you and healing you during that time. Ring of Door Detection or Wand of BOOM! were fun punny things too. And given I was around 11 or 12 at the time, it was more of a laugh than face palm when such popped up.