Duskvision vs Twilightvision

[Thoom]

Sorry for the newbie question, but what's the difference between Duskvision and Twilightvision? The only difference in the wording that I see is that Twilightvision seems to apply to torch light. I am not sure I understand how someone can see up to a mile in torchlight by the way. So can anyone shed some light ( ) on the differences between these two?

[Treebore]

Good question. I could try and draw upon my ancient knowledge of eye and retinae anatomy and try to explain how rods and cones in certain species eyes align to maximize light sensitivity, etc.... but I won't.

I'll just say we largely just ignore these things and call it all good. IE if it isn't pitch black due to a spell, what have you, they can see. This issue usually comes up inside of a castle/cave complex/etc.... so seeing a mile is rarely an issue.
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[serleran]

In my old Q&A, I stated that the difference between deepvision and darkvision is a matter of distance -- a similar thing applies here, only, it is a matter of ambient light. Read the differences between the Elf and Halfling to better see how this works -- the elf can see in torchlight, for example, but a halfling cannot -- and everything they do see is cast in shadows. Distance is also a factor.

[Thoom]

So if I understand correctly, (I take it you meant to say Twilightvilsion instead of Deepvision) a Halfling can see to 60 feet in moonlight while an Elf can see up to a mile, and an Elf underground, with a torch, can see also very far (up to a mile) while a Halfling cannot see beyond the 40 feet afforded by the torch. Is that about right?

[serleran]

Yep, that's about right. Elven vision is pretty dang impressive, but take that torch away, and they're no good. Need a gnome or dwarf with you.

[Buttmonkey]

Gads. There's a lot to be said for simply using infravision a la 1E.

[serleran]

Yeah, so much that no one ever really stopped talking about it, and they had like 50 different ways it worked... not to mention ultravision, x-ray vision, special magical vision that let you see through the dark (but wasn't infravision) and so on and so forth, like seeing sound, ethereal vision.... and I'm sure about 10 others.

Personally, in my games, these are all removed -- I use darksight. Either you have it, or you don't.

[Rigon]

serleran wrote:
Personally, in my games, these are all removed -- I use darksight. Either you have it, or you don't.

That sounds simple enough to steal.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[Thoom]

serleran wrote:
Personally, in my games, these are all removed -- I use darksight. Either you have it, or you don't.

Interesting.

Do Halfling "have it" in your game?

[serleran]

Halflings might -- they roll a d20; on a 12+, the character does. A human might, too, on a natural 20. These are unmodified rolls, by the way.

That's assuming I use the halfling as its presented in the PHB and not a variant version -- I like to change the default races when I play, so each game is always different, ground up.

[Rigon]

What are the ranges you associate with each race.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[serleran]

Quote:
What are the ranges you associate with each race.

Dwarf: 120 feet -- stays most time underground

Elf: 60 feet -- stays most time above ground, in moonlight

Gnome: 90 feet -- mixes surface with subterranean, but lives underground

Half-Elf (Any Ancestry): 30 feet -- half an elf

Halfling (if ability possessed): 30 feet -- mixes surface with subterranean, but lives above-ground

Half-Orc: 30 feet -- half a monster

Human (if ability possessed): 10 feet -- minor visual acuity

Monster: 60 feet -- standard, but some have longer visual range

[Rigon]

serleran wrote:
Dwarf: 120 feet -- stays most time underground

Elf: 60 feet -- stays most time above ground, in moonlight

Gnome: 90 feet -- mixes surface with subterranean, but lives underground

Half-Elf (Any Ancestry): 30 feet -- half an elf

Halfling (if ability possessed): 30 feet -- mixes surface with subterranean, but lives above-ground

Half-Orc: 30 feet -- half a monster

Human (if ability possessed): 10 feet -- minor visual acuity

Monster: 60 feet -- standard, but some have longer visual range

Ok, this is officially stolen for my house rules. Thanks Serl.

R-
_________________
Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[Mac Golden]

Read each description carefully. I guess we need to revise and add to the descriptions to make the differences and reasons for such more clear.

[Thoom]

Mac Golden wrote:
Read each description carefully. I guess we need to revise and add to the descriptions to make the differences and reasons for such more clear.

I did and then I asked here
I think changing the wording would help. Also, check the description on the CK screen.

I can see the nuances between the two (from the description in the Players' Handbook) but I think, IMHO, that they're still too similar to justify having two categories. I'll adopt Serelan's Darksight rules which make more sense to me.