CZ Secondary Skills -- alternative 'costs'

Joe Mac · Post by **Joe Mac** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:41 am

I'm not sure I like fixed XP costs for each 'level' of the secondary skills. For those who have experimented with different ways of 'paying' for secondary skills, what do you use and how well has it worked?

I'm thinking I'd prefer that secondary skills cost a continual percentage off the top of all earned XP -- but how much? 5% per skill level, perhaps?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:32 am

If you want them to end up costing even more than they currently do.... sure. The fixed amounts are, in the long run, far cheaper than an XP penalty. The "penalty" is great for low level games, though, where you need tens-hundred thousand requirements.

Joe Mac · Post by **Joe Mac** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:06 am

Yep, I realize the fixed amounts are much 'cheaper' over the long haul. I don't mind the greater cost because conceptually, I'm thinking of the secondary skill -- even though you don't add character level to the check -- as another tool in the box that will require training and practice to maintain.

However, the very fact that you don't add character level to the check, making it a 'static' level of skill, can be an argument in favor of a one-time cost.

That's why I'm on the fence, and looking for opinions.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:02 pm

Joe Mac wrote:
However, the very fact that you don't add character level to the check, making it a 'static' level of skill, can be an argument in favor of a one-time cost.

Actually, you do, in a sense. You just add the level of the ability to the check.

Course, if a simple solution is required, save 10% of your xp every level into a 'pool' for the CZ skills. By the time most characters get to 10th level, one gets a hell of a pool of ability ranks.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Mythago · Post by **Mythago** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:33 pm

just a thought of the top of my head...

maybe one could combine the CZ secondary skills with the old non weapon profiecency rules - so sec skills use up slots - I like the CZ concept of sec skills for sure but dont like the xp cost system.

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:18 pm

Mythago wrote:
just a thought of the top of my head...

maybe one could combine the CZ secondary skills with the old non weapon profiecency rules - so sec skills use up slots - I like the CZ concept of sec skills for sure but dont like the xp cost system.

This is what i've done. I use the nonweapon proficiencies from 2nd Ed AD&D. All characters start with 5 `slots'. You improve at these skills at +1 every 2 levels (they're secondary after all). The Siege Engine takes care of the rest.

I really like the nwp of 2nd Ed. They really add a lot of flavor to your character while maintaining the core mechanic.

I don't add extra slots at later levels, but there's no reason you couldn't make that work too.

-Fizz

Mythago · Post by **Mythago** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:07 pm

are you using the NWP 2ed skill list or do you use slots with CZ secondary skills 'packages'?

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:09 pm

Mythago wrote:
are you using the NWP 2ed skill list or do you use slots with CZ secondary skills 'packages'?

I use the NWP of 2nd Ed AD&D.

-Fizz

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:16 am

What I do not like is the linear progression. So I cut the starting cost in half, and applied a geometric progression.

So, a skill which costed 3000, 6000, 9000, 12000 etc. now costs 1500, 3000, 6000, 12000, 24000 etc.

When skills reach high levels, buying them is far too cheap with respect to how much it costs to obtain a class skill increase of one point.

Unless this, too, is an errata of the CZ skills system...I might ask Gary

Ghul · Post by **Ghul** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:36 pm

I'd say it's up to the individual Castle Keeper as to how many levels can be purchased for a skill. I would personally impose 4 levels at best for any individual secondary skill bundle. Bear in mind, you *do not* add character level to ability checks, so the bonus never gets too out of control.

--Ghul

Joe Mac · Post by **Joe Mac** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:32 pm

Hey, I'm bumping my own old thread, after two years, to ask again: is anyone currently using an XP percentage system for skill bundle costs? Something like:

Prime 5%

General 10%

Non-prime 15%

I'm thinking this might make skill bundle attainment at lower levels more feasible. It would have to be limited -- say, no more than one or two skills at 1st level, and no more than one new skill gained (subject to appropriate training opportunities, of course) at each additional level.

The percentage costs taken off the top of earned XP should add up quickly, and discourage the accumulation of too many skill bundles.

Thoughts?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:12 am

The Castle Keeper of the current game is considering something like this, as the party is leaning toward breaking out of archetypes anyway (only one PC is not a multiclass character), so if we did, it would probably be a 20 or 25% penalty on earned XP, with the Intelligence bonus allowed as far as what skill bundles may be learned, and that is before the GP and time costs, which our game, would mean years of real play (because we just spent almost 7 months playing out 4 weeks of game time...) so, I don't think anyone would actually use it.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Joe Mac · Post by **Joe Mac** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:40 pm

serleran wrote:
The Castle Keeper of the current game is considering something like this, as the party is leaning toward breaking out of archetypes anyway (only one PC is not a multiclass character), so if we did, it would probably be a 20 or 25% penalty on earned XP, with the Intelligence bonus allowed as far as what skill bundles may be learned, and that is before the GP and time costs, which our game, would mean years of real play (because we just spent almost 7 months playing out 4 weeks of game time...) so, I don't think anyone would actually use it.

Why such a high percentage, and how does the percentage relate to prime vs. non-prime (or does it)? Also, not sure I understand what role the Int bonus would play in this... Thanks

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:50 pm

Its a high percentage because, effectively, skill bundles can provide the entire class suite of abilities to a character, and seeing as we're already mostly double-classed, it would be fairly ridiculous to allow us, in effect, to be triple-classed without penalty. And, Intelligence covers how much a person can learn -- skills are things you learn, so, you if you're a 3 Intelligence inbred yokel bumpkin, don't expect to know rocket science, genetic theory, robot mechanics, and the inner workings of an apple -- you might know how to piss your pants, though, or that a candy bar costs about $100.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:26 pm

Getting rid of skills was one of the attractions of the game. Why would I want to reintroduce them? (so no, we're not using them)
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:52 pm

Go0gleplex wrote:
Getting rid of skills was one of the attractions of the game. Why would I want to reintroduce them? (so no, we're not using them)

Even though I made my own system for skills, I do agree with Go0gle. I use them when it's called for, but I'd rather not have them, personally.
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.