Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

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serleran
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by serleran »

I suppose I treat it very differently than some, at least from the approach. I make things a "save vs. distraction." Characters with good meditative or focus powers, like say, a monk, ranger, spellcasters, and thieves/assassins can steady their mind and be prepared for things... but only when the player says they are doing so or trying to find something/be on the lookout. There are random "did I notice that?" things but it does no use SIEGE and is based on a d12, not necessarily unlike the AD&D elf power to notice doors.

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Fiffergrund
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Fiffergrund »

Ah, the d12. The d20 gets all the love, but the d12 is special.
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Captain_K
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Captain_K »

I have a nice write up on class abilities and then some typical "skills" that do not BTB exist in CnC as they are not needed in a true siege engine game. But as I write up, playing a tuba is a skill, not a lucky roll. same for riding a horse or swimming. One could say same for spot and search if you want to let someone get good at those things OUTSIDE their class.
1) They get no level bonus for skills.
2) No skill is ever as good as a class or race ability. Which I would rule makes anyone with find and remove traps having a search ability over a skill same for racial find hidden doors.
3) No character should be as good using a "skill" as a character using an ability (climb is a great example).

Shoot me a PM and I can send.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

Brick Hardslab
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Brick Hardslab »

If my characters tell me they are searching and give it the old college try, I'm going to give them a chance to find it. Usually, four out of five people around my table are explicitly trained in the real world at searching for stuff both indoors and outdoors. I have players who have found 'hidden' doors and traps in real life.

A role playing game should be able to give players the feeling that what they do makes a difference in the world they are playing in. So sure, a rogue, elf, ranger searching outdoors is going to get a better chance at spotting something or picking a lock. But there are folks right now in our mundane world who have never been a thief, (well some of the locksmiths were but...) that are opening somebody's car door or getting them back into their apartment or tracking a man or deer without having been a ranger, etc. My great uncle performed riding tricks in a rodeo, he was no knight of any kind.

I'm of the mind that if we treat the players' efforts with the chance of succeeding, they'll keep trying and isn't that what we're trying to do, keep the players coming back I mean?

Brick

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Grandpa
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Grandpa »

Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:22 am

I'm of the mind that if we treat the players' efforts with the chance of succeeding, they'll keep trying and isn't that what we're trying to do, keep the players coming back I mean?

Brick
In over 40 years I've never had an issue with players "coming back" AND using skill rules as written. But you need to read the rules again. It's not that they cannot TRY. It's that their success will never be as good as someone trained. Your great uncle WAS trained. He didn't just one day jump on a horse and perform tricks. I KNOW that because I've been riding since I was 4 years old. I'm NOT a knight BUT I AM trained in riding and hunting from horseback. Took YEARS to gain a good level of competency.

Brick Hardslab
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Brick Hardslab »

Grandpa wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:48 pm
Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:22 am

I'm of the mind that if we treat the players' efforts with the chance of succeeding, they'll keep trying and isn't that what we're trying to do, keep the players coming back I mean?

Brick
In over 40 years I've never had an issue with players "coming back" AND using skill rules as written. But you need to read the rules again. It's not that they cannot TRY. It's that their success will never be as good as someone trained. Your great uncle WAS trained. He didn't just one day jump on a horse and perform tricks. I KNOW that because I've been riding since I was 4 years old. I'm NOT a knight BUT I AM trained in riding and hunting from horseback. Took YEARS to gain a good level of competency.
I guess I wasn't clear enough. I was not saying that I have ever had a problem with players 'coming back' except those who are beyond the reach of games either through geography or mortality. Nor was I saying that skills rules as written needed to be changed. It's clear that somebody who has the proper class/race will have a better chance of success.

My point was that people rarely fit into 'classes' and tasks (other than supernatural or preternatural) can be attempted by anybody with varying degrees of success. In addition, players enjoy influencing the world they live in, in realistic ways. That was the whole of what I was trying to say, apparently without as much success as I hoped.

As Winston Churchill said, “There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” Riding is a great way to pass a day, even if you are working.

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Grandpa
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Grandpa »

Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:37 pm

My point was that people rarely fit into 'classes' and tasks (other than supernatural or preternatural) can be attempted by anybody with varying degrees of success. In addition, players enjoy influencing the world they live in, in realistic ways. That was the whole of what I was trying to say, apparently without as much success as I hoped.

Right but you have to be realistic as to what is possible and what is not as a GM. If I gave you an average pin tumbler padlock and you don't have or know how to use specialized picks you can roll a "20" all day and you won't open the lock.

Brick Hardslab
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Brick Hardslab »

Grandpa wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:41 pm
Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:37 pm

My point was that people rarely fit into 'classes' and tasks (other than supernatural or preternatural) can be attempted by anybody with varying degrees of success. In addition, players enjoy influencing the world they live in, in realistic ways. That was the whole of what I was trying to say, apparently without as much success as I hoped.

Right but you have to be realistic as to what is possible and what is not as a GM. If I gave you an average pin tumbler padlock and you don't have or know how to use specialized picks you can roll a "20" all day and you won't open the lock.
True nor can you do most anything truly specialized. I've always wanted to have a pc try something really outlandish like brain surgery or necromancy with no experience or training but so far no one will bite. I should probably quit smiling like a shark when they suggest it.

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Grandpa
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Re: Cleric - Spot and Search GOD

Post by Grandpa »

Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:24 pm
Grandpa wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:41 pm
Brick Hardslab wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:37 pm

My point was that people rarely fit into 'classes' and tasks (other than supernatural or preternatural) can be attempted by anybody with varying degrees of success. In addition, players enjoy influencing the world they live in, in realistic ways. That was the whole of what I was trying to say, apparently without as much success as I hoped.

Right but you have to be realistic as to what is possible and what is not as a GM. If I gave you an average pin tumbler padlock and you don't have or know how to use specialized picks you can roll a "20" all day and you won't open the lock.
True nor can you do most anything truly specialized. I've always wanted to have a pc try something really outlandish like brain surgery or necromancy with no experience or training but so far no one will bite. I should probably quit smiling like a shark when they suggest it.
That's funny. And interesting.

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