The OGL & the Future of C&C

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Persimmon
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The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Persimmon »

So there's been a lot of discussion in various places about the changes WOTC is implementing to the OGL with the coming edition (or whatever they're calling it) of the game that used to be Dungeons & Dragons and how it will affect other companies or individuals that produce content for said game. Then today I got the latest ad from Troll Lord where they talk about getting rid of all their 5e back stock and how Castles & Crusades is their future. So I wonder if this means they're going to stop producing content for that other game entirely?

Personally I've long favored this approach (focusing on their core product) and in conjunction with their new relationship with Frog God we could be entering a golden age for C&C.
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Grandpa
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Grandpa »

WotC's action on a new OGL doesn't effect C&C at all. It would only apply to new content which C&C wouldn't use anyways.

If it is a good enough deal I think TL would produce new material for whatever slop RPG WotC produces, for extra revenue.

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Persimmon
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Persimmon »

Grandpa wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:30 am
WotC's action on a new OGL doesn't effect C&C at all. It would only apply to new content which C&C wouldn't use anyways.

If it is a good enough deal I think TL would produce new material for whatever slop RPG WotC produces, for extra revenue.
So did you not see their ad from today? It seems to suggest otherwise.
Behind closed eyes, realize your sight....

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Grandpa
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Grandpa »

Persimmon wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:53 am
So did you not see their ad from today? It seems to suggest otherwise.
Didn't see it. You'll have to be specific. But, if it is some nonsense about WotC cancelling the uncancelled, perpetual 1.0a license, I spoke to that insanity about a week ago on another forum.

serleran
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by serleran »

Fortunately, the original OGL contained a perpetuity clause which allows it to be used indefinitely even if changes, including the removal of the clause, are made in the future. There may be added conditions in future OGLs or, like the STL, specific requirements but C&C need not adopt these.

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Grandpa
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Grandpa »

serleran wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:19 pm
Fortunately, the original OGL contained a perpetuity clause which allows it to be used indefinitely even if changes, including the removal of the clause, are made in the future. There may be added conditions in future OGLs or, like the STL, specific requirements but C&C need not adopt these.
Exactly. The barn doors were removed from their hinges with the OGL that C&C uses...

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maximus
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by maximus »

Grandpa wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:48 pm
serleran wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:19 pm
Fortunately, the original OGL contained a perpetuity clause which allows it to be used indefinitely even if changes, including the removal of the clause, are made in the future. There may be added conditions in future OGLs or, like the STL, specific requirements but C&C need not adopt these.
Exactly. The barn doors were removed from their hinges with the OGL that C&C uses...
I've seen a lot of disagreement on this point, as in Perpetual does not equal Irrevocable. I'm not a lawyer but it does seem an important point. In any case, I would applaud the Trolls concentrating on C&C and kicking D&D to the curb. I'm with Persimmon on the recent partnership TLG and FGG being a great opportunity.

Edit: see this link for some good Q&A on the subject https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets ... 1312d48e2f

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Grandpa
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Grandpa »

maximus wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:34 am

I've seen a lot of disagreement on this point, as in Perpetual does not equal Irrevocable. I'm not a lawyer but it does seem an important point. In any case, I would applaud the Trolls concentrating on C&C and kicking D&D to the curb. I'm with Persimmon on the recent partnership TLG and FGG being a great opportunity.
Before I retired my company had an international law firm on a million $ per year retainer that specialized in I.P. (it was a S/W company) I passed the OGL by the guy I still know there. He said WotC is screwed if they try to go against that license. One would have to violate its terms to lose it. Good enough for me.

serleran
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by serleran »

As far as I know, use of the 1.0a license is all that is required. Use of any future version beyond this has its own terms, including the removal of the perpetuity clause as WotC attempted to chain and lock the gate, failing, since no one needs to use the new license(s) unless they have specific need to do so to gain something.

That is, of course, distinct from the now-defunct STL (the thing allowing one to use certain trade dress to, basically, identify as a d20 product) and the more current GSL which, I believe (not looked at it myself), is actually required for use with 4e/5e so there are many more restrictions on these editions.

So, really, the original OGL is more like an "open source" license that cannot be taken back unless, as noted, someone does not implement it properly like, if they use Open Content and don't section 15 it.

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Persimmon
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Re: The OGL & the Future of C&C

Post by Persimmon »

Yeah, I really don't care about the OGL at all so long as C&C can continue to produce content. And my main point in the first place was that the wording used by Troll Lord implied that they weren't going to mess with the new license and were foregoing future D&D conversions to focus on C&C, which I see as a good thing.
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