Is the Tome of the Unclean finished? I've had a PDF subscription for it since it launced and would like to download the final product if it is completed.

R-

You'll probably get a faster official answer if you ask on the C&C Facebook page. The Trolls seem to monitor the Facebook page much more closely.

Yeah. I thought I saw it on FB or MeWe or some such. Was just asking here if anyone had gotten anything offical. I checked DriveThru, but they didn't have an update. I still have the email saying those with a subscription will get the final PDF of TotU.

R-

I posted on FB and got an answer. Yes it is ready, but there was an issue with peopple who have the subscription. They are working on it.

R-

Have they addressed the underpowered complaints?
The unclean should be badasses, but many have said they are weak.

I don’t know. I was one of the subscription level folks. I haven’t gotten my updated copy.

R-

I have the subscription as well. Steve mentioned working on buffing up the bad guys about 2 years ago, but haven't heard anything since. Hate to be negative, but I don't expect much at this point.

I was afraid that would be the case.

January 14, 2019
C&C Tome of the Unclean Update
Posted by Stephen Chenault (Creator)
3 Comments

Greetings from the Dens!

We are finished with the Tome of the Unclean. All of Scott Geeding's edits are in and the document is, I trust, a much more solid work. I was very pleased with the edits. Scott found a host of small mistakes. Good to see them rooted out. A new file was updated in your DrivethruRPG library a few minutes ago. You should receive a notice.

Tomorrow I will contact the printer and schedule the price quote and get it into the print queue. It usually takes several days before we receive a quote back and begin the upload process (I'm setting Friday down as the upload to the printer) so we are going to take that time to comb over the manuscript a last few times.

Please do so yourselves. If you find something, shoot us an email please so we can fix it before we go to print!

Thank you all for your patience, the book will be worth the wait!

Have a great rest of your week!

Steve and the Troll Lords

Thanks for the update. It appears no changes will be made to the demons and devils. I might pick it up to be a completest...

Not seeing a reason to buy a book that i have to modify to use, already doing that with old monster books that have demons.

Agreed 100%. I purchased the subscription expecting some improvements. They went backwards. Hopefully Steven has taken the feedback to heart and made some solid adjustments.

A new update came out this morning, and unfortunately it lived down to my expectations. All of the demon lords and arch devils are still under powered IMO. When I think of these creatures, I envision extremely tough/smart/magical. Here's a few examples:

1. Only 4 spell like abilities for Belial.
2. Asmodeus can cast 50 levels of spells per day, but has no at will abilities.
3. Oozemandius the "Slime Lord" is not immune to acid. Only has 4 spell like abilities.
4. Why don't the most powerful devils/demons have maximum hit points per die? Looks like most use d10 for HD, but some of them have less than 5 hp per die.

General:

1. Demons no longer have any element resistance, nor can they teleport.
2. Devils are no longer immune to fire.

These are certainly different than the D&D versions, but not improved as I had hoped. I guess I just need to create my own versions.

If you sift through the Monsters for C&C sub-forum you'll find lots of Demon / Devil posts. So very high level stuff, the Demon Lord posts are awesome. I'll refrain from linking at this point but look out KaiserKris' posts for sure.

-Mike

Thanks for the heads up! That's a great place to start.

I haven't looked at TOTU in a long time (waiting for the hardcopy), but I always boosted their HP and gave them certain immunities like to fire/lighting, etc. But I don;t make them TOO immune to everything mainly because I boost up their HPs. For example, in my games ORCUS is the biggest baddest demon daddy and he has 666 HP. Take that pesky mortals.

~O

I dont buy C&C monster books to make additional changes.
There are so many monster books out there now i can do that with.

Agreed. Epic fail on this one IMO. Oh well...

I'll look to see if I have the update for this, either tomorrow or the Monday, now that I am done with this big fundraiser for the seniors. Then I'll give it a read through and let you know what I think.

R-

Thanks for checking. i am not expecting much. this whole project should have been more important and the fact the monsters are being called weak is real disappointment.

Although my knowledge regarding this work is totally peripheral, the subject is something I can express some real agreement with and support for - if you've got that paladin who lives for giving evil what for (and yes, I can see said paladin getting tired of stopping market-bound individuals who've got mismatched wheels on their transport wagons; sure, it's good for public safety, but it just ain't the same as scrapping, say, a pit fiend one on one), as I do, then this sort of thing is Fantasy RPG gold. As Omote stated, I can certainly do an on-the-spot upgrade for likely candidates if I've got the time, but this is part of the reason I - and I suspect most of us - lay out the long green for this stuff in the first place: We don't have the time; we've got families, friends and work that make DIY projects of this nature a non-starter.

One thing I'd appreciate very much: if someone can provide a link as to where an example - or examples - of the monster/s under discussion and dispute can be looked over, all gratitude is forthcoming. Otherwise, just waiting for the PDF to become available, and hoping we can get some considered reviews coming in and determinations as to whether the work is Pretty Darn Good or is going to require serious update for a second edition, leaving us to do home conversions of Monster Manual demon/devil subjects during the hiatus.

The conversions and EXTRAS are all in the Monsters for C&C sub-forum, I tried to compile a list below. KaiserKris did extensive work and really you could make a book right out of his stuff.

Here are links to my generic conversion on the AD&D..
Angels:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13408

Devils:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13407

Demons:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13406

clavis123 posted a complete list of his work HERE
viewtopic.php?p=168740#p168740

KaiserKris Demon/Devil Posts

New and Reimagined Demons (Master List)
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12409

The Six Tyrants (Devils)
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12350

The Subjugator Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10894

Dispater
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10874

Apollyon
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10861

Astaroth
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10879

Lilith
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10778

Belial
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10690

Behemoth- The Final Guardian of Hell
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10685

The Sin Eater- Hell's 'Collection Agent'
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10684

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Nabassu
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10679

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Shadow Demon
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10678

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Dretch
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10647

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Nalfeshnee
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10629

Mammon, Lord of the Second
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10591

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Barbed Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10572

Reimagining SRD Fiends I: The Babau, Glabrezu and Erinyes
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10493

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Succubus
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10573

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Vrock
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10571

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Hezrou
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10570

Azazel, the Dual Prince
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10547

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Chain Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10566

The Tempter Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10563

The Lemure, Infernal Legionnaire and Bearded Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10549

Infernal Pacts- Bargaining With the Powers of Hell
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10537

Demogorgon, King of Demons, Speaker of the Deplorable Word
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10544

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Horned Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10536

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Pit Fiend
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10495

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Balor
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10519

Asmodeus, Lord of the Ninth
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10525

Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Bone Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10518


Reimagining SRD Fiends: The Ice Devil
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10505

Proserpina, Princess of Hell
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10474

Baalzebub, Lord of the Seventh
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10478

Nice post MGT! Thank you.

~O

Agreed; much appreciated on submitting these, mgtremaine and KaiserKris. Really hoping that TotU has got some serious legs to it; with both Monsters & Treasure and Classic Monsters lacking lower planes entries on a systemic basis (individual monsters like the Death Knight notwithstanding), doing AD&D first/second edition Monster Manual conversions/adaptations on a personal basis certainly ain't impossible, but having some kind of official publication endorsing such is definitely appreciated. Hope to see some reviews of the PDF (which I've noted, from DriveThru, is already available) to give some grounding on where matters stand.

Yes, thanks MGT for putting those links in one place for us. Much appreciated!

I just put a few comments on the DrivethruRPG site. I'm sure it's not what the Trolls want to hear, but they obviously didn't listen when feedback was asked from forum members a few years ago

Nice thanks for the links. I remember some of them from back in the day but it is good to them all in one place and easy to get to.

Great work on those conversions