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Harvester - Observations and Suggestions 
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Mist Elf

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 7:00 am
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Location: Portland, OR
Post Harvester - Observations and Suggestions
Hey guys! I finally got my hands on a copy of 'Harvesters' and I think it's a wonderful introductory RPG for kids and "non-gamers" while also satisfying an itch for anthropomorphic game fans!

A couple things...

1) This book needed another edit. As a working editor in the gaming industry, it bugs me when I see TWO editors credited yet there are errors in the SECOND sentence of the rules ("...any number of animal characters that populate THE THE village of Wheat Hollow..." I've found a number of other errors like this in my reading and it's just a tad annoying...

2) A Table of Contents and/or Index would have been helpful. I know it's a thin (ish) tome, but these things are certainly helpful, especially for the new gamer.

3) For a game "Designed for children ages 6 and up", the included character sheet (a repurposed C&C sheet) is WAY too complicated/overwhelming. I would have liked to have seen a very simplified, user-friendly sheet for the kiddos. That said, has any one designed and posted one yet???

4) Lastly, I LOVE Jim Holloway's art. Always have! Designer John Seibel's artistic contributions, on the other hand, seem out of place alongside Jim's work (no offense John) . I'm a halfway decent artist myself (majored in Art in High School and almost went down that same road in college), but even I would opt to not include my own work in a publication in favor of that by an accomplished artist like Jim Holloway. Sorry man...

Anyway, I do love the book and the game and I look forward to running it someday soon and seeing it expanded, even with occasional downloadable content!


Wed May 12, 2010 4:26 pm
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Ulthal

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:00 am
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Post Re: Harvester - Observations and Suggestions
Quote:
Ogma wrote:
A couple things...

1) This book needed another edit. As a working editor in the gaming industry, it bugs me when I see TWO editors credited yet there are errors in the SECOND sentence of the rules ("...any number of animal characters that populate THE THE village of Wheat Hollow..." I've found a number of other errors like this in my reading and it's just a tad annoying...



Ummm....have you seen Paizo state that they've had 6 eyes on books and yet errors get through?

I'm sure the book could stand another look. I know I had to do a quick turnaround (a weekend) for Steve with it, so I certainly didn't get a chance to do a thorough job on it on my end.
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Wed May 12, 2010 4:56 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
Quote:
As a working editor in the gaming industry, it bugs me when I see TWO editors credited yet there are errors in the SECOND sentence of the rules ("...any number of animal characters that populate THE THE village of Wheat Hollow..." I've found a number of other errors like this in my reading and it's just a tad annoying...



So, what books have you worked on? A missed "the" is quite funny, really as any word processor worth typing into would have auto-detected that. I guess that means it wasn't put through such modern conveniences. Heavens to Betsy, I say.
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Wed May 12, 2010 5:16 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
So, what books have you worked on? A missed "the" is quite funny, really as any word processor worth typing into would have auto-detected that. I guess that means it wasn't put through such modern conveniences. Heavens to Betsy, I say.



You know Steve uses a mechanical typewriter

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Wed May 12, 2010 5:48 pm
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Lore Drake
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Art is in the eye of the beholder!!
So, beware, a beholder will be heading your way!!
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Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
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Wed May 12, 2010 6:33 pm
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Mist Elf

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 7:00 am
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Location: Portland, OR
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
So, what books have you worked on? A missed "the" is quite funny, really as any word processor worth typing into would have auto-detected that. I guess that means it wasn't put through such modern conveniences. Heavens to Betsy, I say.



I've edited/proofread about 25 products (adventures and rules) for Triple Ace Games as well as the 'Agents of Oblivion' rule book for Reality Blurs.

And yes, funny about the double "the" in that second sentence... Usually, edited materials follow a predictable pattern - Precise from page 1 to about the mid-point and then more and more errors begin to rear their head as the editor grows tired. This is why when I edit, I will often go from page 1 to roughly the mid-point and then leap to the last page and actually edit backwards!!! A sign of madness or a genius technique? You decide!


Wed May 12, 2010 7:01 pm
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Mist Elf

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Quote:
Deogolf wrote:
Art is in the eye of the beholder!!
So, beware, a beholder will be heading your way!!



Hey Jim!

I've been a fan of your work since the early/mid 80s!


Wed May 12, 2010 7:03 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Quote:
Ogma wrote:
Hey Jim!

I've been a fan of your work since the early/mid 80s!



Deogolf is John

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Wed May 12, 2010 7:20 pm
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Mist Elf

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Quote:
Breakdaddy wrote:
Deogolf is John



Heh, well I didn't know that. There's nothing on his profile to indicate that and I don't spend enough time in these here forums to know otherwise.

My bad!


Wed May 12, 2010 9:43 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Hey, Ogma! One of my Savage Worlds forum buddies.


Wed May 12, 2010 10:18 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Ogma wrote:
Hey Jim!

I've been a fan of your work since the early/mid 80s!



Yes, I'm John - but, I am the "Ear of Jim". I will pass along your adoration!
I also don't pretend to think I'm anywhere near the talent that Mr. Holloway is, few are. But, I'm happy with how they turned out and always strive to do better the next time around!
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
http://jimhollowayart.com/id5.html


Thu May 13, 2010 12:29 am
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Unkbartig
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Christina is a much needed improvement and editing contribution to the Trolls.

TLG has done nothing but improve in the editing department. Of course this is an opinion based on relative facts.

But typos are a big annoyance to me also.

If John is brave enough to place his art beside an established legend then more power to him!

My current annoyance is why the heck does Amazon sell it and yet it takes forever to get it to me? If I knew they were going to take forever I would have ordered direct.

Now where is that list of credits again?

I plan to go thru his stuff with a fine tooth comb...and if I find anything so much as a typo or word out of context...so help me I'll...I'll...I'll do something dreaded and horrible I tell ya!

I just think it is neat that TLG is a company willing to publish folks games.
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Thu May 20, 2010 6:56 pm
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Ulthal

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Quote:
Joe wrote:
I plan to go thru his stuff with a fine tooth comb...and if I find anything so much as a typo or word out of context...so help me I'll...I'll...I'll do something dreaded and horrible I tell ya!

I just think it is neat that TLG is a company willing to publish folks games.



Thanks, Joe. If I had a printed copy of the game, I'd do so myself!

That being said, typos will always sneak in, and as a reader of other games (by various companies), I see them all the time. It bothers me a bit, but, as I mentioned before, even Paizo has had issues even after 6 editors/proofreaders have worked on their products. And, besides typos, think of all the games that have some type of errata needed.
Fields of Battle is going to be my first edit with the actual raw text of the upcoming products, so judge my editing ability more from that when it comes out. I find it's much easier to fix the problems within the text than with a layout copy. Still, I don't claim to be infallible; I just do the best I can, whether it's writing or editing.

Anyway, on the editing front Steve and I have been pretty inventive about working together on both Harvesters and MT&A. Steve sent me pdfs of the products in layout. I printed, marked up, and then faxed back to Steve--yep, you read it: FAXED back. Poor Steve had to read a fax copy, interpret my chicken scratch, and manually enter my changes--all the while cursing my name. So, as you can guess, this wasn't the best solution--there's certainly more room for problems this way--but TLG took the time to get another edit to ensure a better product for you. That's the bottom line, and continuous improvement seems to be what TLG is all about (as evidenced from the new work setup).

Christina
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Thu May 20, 2010 7:41 pm
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Mogrl

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Yep, there has been a continual improvement in all things TLG. If there was no room to improve, how could they get better?
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Thu May 20, 2010 7:58 pm
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Maukling
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I posted this in another thread, but I'll put it here too.

I just think it's odd that there's the spell animal friendship. I think that's kind of odd for this game, since it seems most (or all) "animals" are either the Pcs/NPCs of the world or the foes...and 80% of them are animals. It would be cool if there were some mundane insects that could be replaced for target of this spell.
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Sat May 22, 2010 7:49 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Lord Dynel wrote:
I posted this in another thread, but I'll put it here too.

I just think it's odd that there's the spell animal friendship. I think that's kind of odd for this game, since it seems most (or all) "animals" are either the Pcs/NPCs of the world or the foes...and 80% of them are animals. It would be cool if there were some mundane insects that could be replaced for target of this spell.



That was a mistake. Simply delete!
Insects?! Defintely forthcoming!!
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
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Sat May 22, 2010 10:26 pm
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Maukling
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Nice, John.

So, I take it Harvesters will see more support? That would be awesome.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Quote:
Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

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LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.


Sun May 23, 2010 2:33 am
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Lord Dynel wrote:
Nice, John.

So, I take it Harvesters will see more support? That would be awesome.



Steve assured me that there would be more. I sure hope so - I have a few more things up my sleeve!
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
http://jimhollowayart.com/id5.html


Sun May 23, 2010 3:39 am
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Unkbartig
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Animal Friendship...like charm person would it not?

Well Amazon contacted me with a rough delivery date so something looks to be happening.

I hope so...I am hungry for a non-D&D type game.
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Tue May 25, 2010 5:49 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Joe wrote:
Animal Friendship...like charm person would it not?

Well Amazon contacted me with a rough delivery date so something looks to be happening.

I hope so...I am hungry for a non-D&D type game.



Thanks for the support! Ordering straight from da Man is the best way (for future reference )!!
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
http://jimhollowayart.com/id5.html


Tue May 25, 2010 6:00 pm
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Unkbartig
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I would have had I realized they had nothing in stock.

Amazon is usually so much faster.

Not that I don't enjoy waiting and waiting to receive my stuff packed in shredded d20 material.
I mean really, I am still picking up little pieces of paper from that darn debaucle. Hopefully TLG has gotten rid of their improvised packing material by now and I can start buying direct again.

What sort of industry "leaders" cause everyone else to shred their supporting product?
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Tue May 25, 2010 8:35 pm
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Maukling
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Yeah, Joe, I wasn't too fond of that either, to be honest.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Quote:
Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

_________________
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.


Tue May 25, 2010 10:05 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Joe wrote:
I would have had I realized they had nothing in stock.

Amazon is usually so much faster.

Not that I don't enjoy waiting and waiting to receive my stuff packed in shredded d20 material.
I mean really, I am still picking up little pieces of paper from that darn debaucle. Hopefully TLG has gotten rid of their improvised packing material by now and I can start buying direct again.

What sort of industry "leaders" cause everyone to shred their supporting product?



I can't think of a better use for it than that! Just kidding...I think!
I'm still finding little pieces when I go thru the Upper Works boxed set.
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
http://jimhollowayart.com/id5.html


Tue May 25, 2010 10:34 pm
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Maukling
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Quote:
Deogolf wrote:
Steve assured me that there would be more. I sure hope so - I have a few more things up my sleeve!



I thought I said it, but I didn't see a reply....

...awesome!!
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Quote:
Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

_________________
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.


Wed May 26, 2010 1:26 am
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Unkbartig
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I say we encourage them by starting some fan supported material for Harvesters or some full blown adventure submittals!

Ooh...you got the Upper Works huh?
I want one...
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Thu May 27, 2010 5:49 am
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Joe wrote:
I say we encourage them by starting some fan supported material for Harvesters or some full blown adventure submittals!

Ooh...you got the Upper Works huh?
I want one...



Geez...wait until I finish my next adventure, then you guys can bastardize it all to heck!!
Just kidding, of course! It would be neat to see what other people have in mind when they think of this type of thing.
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Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

Be sure to check out Jim's artwork for sale:
http://jimhollowayart.com/id5.html


Thu May 27, 2010 1:12 pm
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Henchman

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Post Re: Harvester - Observations and Suggestions
I'm excited to look through your observations and suggestions; whether this book needed another edit, this is not a problem at all. Follow http://getessayeditor.com/blog/10-tips-how-to-edit-and-proofread-your-own-book, if you wish to know how professional editors edit and proofread texts.


Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:57 am
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