what I'd like to see in PHBk 4th printing....

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:14 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again... ... ... I think the Illusionist class should have Stealth and some sort of Sneaky Casting ability. Maybe even a D6 HD. These things are easily house ruled I know.

I only say this because the main ability of the Wizard and the Illusionist is magic and they are not balanced against each other at all (160 spells vs. 102 spells). I know that more Illusion spells are being added (are these only for the Illusionist?) but I think such a heavy focus in a single style of magic deserves some other perks. They can't cast more spells per day than a wizard and they have the same Xp requirements...

Just my 2 cents.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:11 pm

I thought the XP requirements changed once they got to about 8th level or so.

*runs to get the PHB*

Okay, it's not until 12th level, but the it is pretty signicifant. So there is some divergence of XP, but not until the late game. Maybe the divergence should come at an earlier point, because I'd be inclined to think the wizard starts outpacing the illusionist before 12th...I;d say probably 8th, IMHO.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:46 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
I thought the XP requirements changed once they got to about 8th level or so.

*runs to get the PHB*

Okay, it's not until 12th level, but the it is pretty signicifant. So there is some divergence of XP, but not until the late game. Maybe the divergence should come at an earlier point, because I'd be inclined to think the wizard starts outpacing the illusionist before 12th...I;d say probably 8th, IMHO.

Don't forget the Sharp Senses and Disguise abilities an illusionist gets. I also think the illusionist gains certain spells before a Wizard does (and vice-versa depending on the nature of the spell). I haven't done an in depth survey on this though.

M
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:20 pm

No, I haven't either, mort. I would assume that these things - Disguise and Sharpe Senses - is part of what keeps the illusionist and the wizard neck-and-neck for so long. But, yeah, without extensive research it would be hard to discern the "whys and wherefores" of such reasoning.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:54 pm

Its probably because I played an Illusionist to 18th level and DMed a couple more to 12th and 14th level, but I consider the Illusionist to be just as powerful as the mage.

Illusionists are often crippled against monsters, however if you want to play a PC that can manipulate a WHOLE populace to follow them and make them their leader the Illusionist is rather awesome.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:25 pm

MacLeod wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again... ... ... I think the Illusionist class should have Stealth and some sort of Sneaky Casting ability. Maybe even a D6 HD. These things are easily house ruled I know.

I only say this because the main ability of the Wizard and the Illusionist is magic and they are not balanced against each other at all (160 spells vs. 102 spells). I know that more Illusion spells are being added (are these only for the Illusionist?) but I think such a heavy focus in a single style of magic deserves some other perks. They can't cast more spells per day than a wizard and they have the same Xp requirements...

Just my 2 cents.

For me it's a matter of the right class for the right campaign.

Wizard vs. Illusionist boils down to style difference for that particular campaign. If you are going to be doing a lot of dungeon crawling, etc. I'd pick a wizard. If we were doing a urban based campaign, with some intrigue and what have you, I'd go Illusionist.

That fireball flinging wizard is just going to get you thrown in the stockade in the urban campaign.

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:24 pm

Makes sense. But I think that the Illusionist could be made into a class to compete with the wizard in battle as well... as long as certain steps were taken.

I never really thought about what you could do with Illusion magic until I played a game with Mesmers. Then again, I guess it depends on the the game's fluff regarding what Illusion magic actually does.

Still, I don't think Stealth and an Invisible/Sneaky Casting ability would make the Illusionist overpowered. Still can't fight too good but at least he can sneak and make his illusions more believable.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:45 pm

In many ways, the illusionist is more powerful than the wizard. Belief moves mountains. Fact just causes arguments.
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MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:41 am

Unless that fact is a 10d6 fireball. That is the sort of thing that melts folks.

Hm... am I seeing this right, C&C Fireballs don't have a damage limiter?
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:51 am

MacLeod wrote:
Unless that fact is a 10d6 fireball. That is the sort of thing that melts folks.

Hm... am I seeing this right, C&C Fireballs don't have a damage limiter?

Thats right, no damage limiter.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:52 am

Our fireballs burn mo' hotta.

MacLeod · Post by **MacLeod** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:02 am

Shoot, son.
I haven't really looked over the spells yet... do any of them have damage limiters...?
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:05 am

No. Well, harm. It can only do up to X - d4.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:07 pm

Since Steve's (blog) talkin May 31st to printers....ordering option now?
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:46 pm

I wonder if Mr. Bradley has any info to divulge regarding the status of the PHB4. Since, I guess we are all assuming he is the layout master on this project, he might know the best.

-O
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:48 pm

Yeah, this is definitely one I want to place on pre-order when they open them up.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:08 am

Me too, DD. I'm so pissed at my FLGS right now - apparently they're still a month off from getting M&T and the Black Libram in. WTF is up with that? Another month? So, as much as I love my FLGS, I'm going to order this puppy direct.

Geesh...I should just open my own store...

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed May 27, 2009 2:27 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
Me too, DD. I'm so pissed at my FLGS right now - apparently they're still a month off from getting M&T and the Black Libram in. WTF is up with that? Another month? So, as much as I love my FLGS, I'm going to order this puppy direct.

Geesh...I should just open my own store...

A shame you missed it, but NKG had a sale that ended a few days ago and you could have gotten a new copy of the 3rd print M&T for something like $16. The Black Libram was only $8.

M
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:26 am

That's a good deal.

I don't mind supporting my FLGS - I just wish they'd get the stuff in a timely manner. If it's WotC they get in by the end of the week, but TLG is held up. I think it's a distributor thing, myself, so I shouldn't be too pissed at the FLGS, I suppose.
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