setting foot in c&c

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jdizzy001
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setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

I'm a 12 year RPG veteran. this Friday will be my 1st c&c game. I will be the ck and I have 5 newbies who have never ever roleplayed before. I am very excited! any c&c specific advice?
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Omote »

Being a 12 year vet, you know most of the good advice. Since this is your first C&C game, remember, don't sweat the details of the C&C game at first. You might get tripped up time to time when using the Siege Engine to resolved tasks -- that's only natural.

The best advice I can give, especially with C&C is not to overuse rolling for checks! The characters in your campaign are probably above average mooks, and they don't need to roll for every little action they perform. For example, if the party needs to climb up the face of a small hill, as long as the climb is not very challanging, don't roll for it! These are heroes and strong adventurers, climbing a hill is mundane enough that you can describe and assume the make the climb.

I'm not sure what your background in adventure roleplaying is, but IMO, C&C is not designed to have to make checks for easy or mundane actions. The Seige Engine is a little tougher than most to succeed at rolls, so if you roll a lot, you are bound to fail more than make. Use the Seige Engine system liberally.

All the best! Enjoy your game, and welcome to your first engagement in the Crusade!

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by redwullf »

I can only really echo what Omote already said. If you're a 12 year veteran of RPGs, then that puts you squarely in the "3rd Era" - meaning you may be used to making (or asking for) checks for everything a character wants to do. However, if you've had any "old school" exposure, then you know the secret of role playing. If not, I'll share it with you here:

Fewer dice rolls are better.

Make a poster out of that sentence and put it on the wall near your gaming table.

Don't have your players make "perception" checks or "knowledge" checks. Instead, have them describe what they're doing, and then make a reasonable ruling. If they should know something, tell them they know it (and what they know). If they shouldn't know something, then no check in the world will reveal the information anyway. Dice are for combat - leave them on the sidelines for most role playing opportunities.

Sure there are opportunities to make Siege Engine checks, but these should only ever be used when there are dire consequences for failure (i.e. immediate bodily harm to the character, or real "game changing" events, etc). Everything else can be handled with a good imagination and words.
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tylermo
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by tylermo »

Pages 122-137 of the phb are your best friend. That part of the book is the meat and potatoes of C&C, apart from the chapter dealing with magic. You have a good opportunity to recruit some newbies, considering they won't have preconceived notions about what C&C should be based on other rpg's. Good luck.

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by CKDad »

I'm not going to assume your background is in D&D (there's lots of other RPGs you might have been playing over the last 12 years), but one thing that system and many others encourage is the idea that "If it's not on the character sheet in some form I can't do it". In C&C, the philosophy is more "There's some things only certain people can do, or do well; for all others, make a SIEGE check." In other words, unless it's something that's specifically designated as a class or racial ability, encourage players to try whatever actions they want to attempt, and the make an appropriate SIEGE check to evaluate their success.

Fighter wants to attempt a second attack after killing an opponent? Make a STR SIEGE check, with the CL being the HD of the opposing creature.
Wizard wants to amp up the power of his Magic Missile spell in a desperate attempt to down the monster that's cleaning your clock? Make an INT check.
Bard wants to encourage the rowers of the galley you're on to up their speed? Make a CHA check.
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Rigon »

I don't have much more to add to the excellent suggestions above, I just wanted to wish you luck and welcome to the Crusade.

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Lord Dynel
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Lord Dynel »

Like others have said, jdizzy, there's a lot of good advice here. I'm going to say that try and run C&C as-is the first time (or first few times) out to see how it runs. What I mean by that is before you start tacking on too many options and additional bits from other systems, try C&C as it is. With some of the advice presented here (not needing/having to roll for everything, etc.), you should be able to adjudicate pretty much everything you need to without having to add more stuff from somewhere else. C&C plays well enough as-is that you don't need to turn it into another system - unless there's something you really, really want in C&C that it doesn't do - for it to run smoothly...and usually, tacking stuff on just bogs it down anyway! :)

In the end, have fun and enjoy! You are the master of the game...the game is not your master.


EDIT: I just want to say, CKDad, that I didn't want to come off as sounding anti-thesis to your good advice! I looked over my post and thought it might, so I wanted to add this bit. If adding stuff (like feat-like actions/abilities) to your game makes it more fun, by all means go for it! My statements were simply that (what I feel like are) extraneous bits are good if you want them, but (in my opinion) not necessary between the fast system and some good CK adjudication skills. :)
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by CKDad »

No problem Lord D, didn't take it that way. I picked examples that mirrored the kinds of things feats are used for as an aid to translation. It could just as easily have been "Rogue wants to jump onto the table, grab the chandelier and swing over the heads of the opponent, Three Musketeers-style". :)
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jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

Wow, thanks for the tips. Yes, I am a 12 year RPG'er. My background is in D20, D6, and a wide variety of other games. I consider myself and RPG engine collector. I have played and "CK," D&D, D6 star wars, D20 star wars (and other D20 games), OVA, L5R, The One Ring, Tales of Blades and Heroes, Pendragon, Serenity and Middle Earth Role Playing. But, as many other gamers, my forte is 3rd era D&D. I am very excited to play C&C as I have played AD&D once or twice and it is very reminiscent of that. The simplicity is what intrigues me the most. So less rolls and more roles eh?
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Rigon »

jdizzy001 wrote:The simplicity is what intrigues me the most. So less rolls and more roles eh?
Yes, definitely.

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Desrimal »

Good luck with your game jdizzy. Plenty of good advice for you above. Let us know how your game went.
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Treebore »

Just remember, if it is a CLASS skill, only that class gets to add their class levels, everyone else only adds their attribute modifier, if any, and treat it as Prime or non Prime.

Aside from that, just always try to say yes, you can TRY to do that. For more detailed ideas you may want to read over Omote's 30 to 40 pages of house rules linked at the bottom of his posts, or find mine on the first page of the thread of the game I run in the on line gaming forum, which is the Wilderlands/Slavelords game. It's several posts down. Mine area bout 14 pages when printed out.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

Next question: In 4e you reach a point where you MUST possess a magic weapon in order to hit the baddies you are fighting (the opposite being true for 3e, you reach a point where you never need to roll again because your bonuses are through the roof). The gap between AC and ThB gets too wide. Does C&C reach that point? If I want to be frugal in handing out magic weapons, or if I want to cap them at +3, will that mean the PC's will be unable to fight certain monsters (barring obvious critters like the Titan who has an AC of, what, 30)?
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Treebore »

I have actually had, in the past, the problem of the AC getting too high too fast. With a couple thousand gold, a few judicious use of spells, and they can get their AC's into the mid 20's pretty easily. Paladins can get to an AC of 27 with good DEX.

Which on one hand is a good thing, because then they can take on those large masses of low HD creatures like they are bad a**, unless of course you start grappling them left and right and roll some natural 20's. On the other hand, you are going to hit them pretty rarely with most everything 8th level and below, which seriously changes the over all feel of the game.

As for monsters, I want them to GET hit pretty regular, most of the time. If not I put spell casters on the bad guys side and have them do things to boost their AC 2 to 5 points.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by serleran »

Kill them all. Take their stuff.

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Rigon »

serleran wrote:Kill them all. Take their stuff.
+1

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jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

Game 1 complete.

We had an elf ranger, elf assassin, human wizard, human knight, and a half-ling rogue. No healer so I jury-rigged some rules for self healing by using HD. Everyone loved the game and system including myself. There was a 2 part skirmish with the back drop of a mass battle on the Great Durac Wall, a few skill challenges for long travels (courtesy of D&D 4e and The One Ring) and the party discovered these strange creatures no one has ever seen in person (but read about in books) called … Orcs. The night was a lot of fun.
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by tylermo »

Glad to hear it went well. Sounds like you used some of the Siege Engine and sime other sources to male the game your own.

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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by CKDad »

Integrating the travel system from The One Ring is something I've considered doing myself - it's such a cool idea that makes one wonder why no one thought of it before!
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jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

Using the one ring (t1r) travel rules was a bit awkward (what with the absence of skills) but it worked fine and everyone had a good time (I did set checks on a base 10 as opposed to a base 12). However, since there is no endurance stat in c&c I did have to come up with some consequences for bad traveling conditions. In t1r a poor trip results in endurance loss. In C&C I could inflict HP dmg to a PC, however, HP recovers so quickly it would have been a moot consequence. So, instead, I borrowed a few ideas from other sources.

Each player is allowed to expand the role of HD on their PC. Normally we use HD to determine how many hit points we have and then forget about them. I added an extra use for HD: Spontaneous healing. Since my group does not have a cleric, druid, or illusionist healing can be quite the problem. To by-pass it I allow the PC to expend their HD to "catch their breath" and heal. For example: Wulf, a 5th level fighter has 5 HD (5D10) as per the phb. Wulf is permitted to use his HD whenever he wants outside combat to roll 1-5 d10 + CON mod and heal that much HP. However, once HD has been spent it can only be recovered at a rate of 1HD + CON mod per day of rest at a sanctuary (A sanctuary is loosely defined as any place Wulf sleeps which will yield a rest more complete than a bedroll and tent. Basically you have to rest at an inn or house or elven sanctuary. That sort of thing. Simply camping on the side of the road though it regens HP, will not recover HD). While in combat Wulf may ONCE per encounter activate his HD and spend 1-5 HD + CON mod to heal. As before, once HD is spent, it can not be recovered until he rests at a sanctuary. Here is an "in game example:" Wulf is fighting a band of goblins. He begins his turn with 6 HP. Wulf realizes he will not survive to the end of the combat and needs healing. As his action, Wulf's player decides to use 3 of Wulf's 5 HD. He rolls 3D10 + 1 (wulf's CON mod) and sums the results: 3 + 4 + 6 + 1 = 14! Wulf recovers 14 HP. Once the encounter is over, Wulf's player decides he needs a boost. He uses Wulf's remaining HD to heal. 2 +1 + 1 = 4 ... ouch. Hopefully Wulf remembered to pack some potions. Wulf has used all 5 of his HD, no matter how much Wulf rests, he will not recover HD until he can rest at a sanctuary.

In my campaign, when the party fails a trip check, I am now able to reduce their HD and give them a consequence which will not be cancelled out that night when they set up camp and rest. As a final note, I do not alter the PC's max HP regardless of their HD total.

This has worked well for my campaign, especially since we don't have a healer ;)
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Ancalagon »

Let the dice fall where they may.
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Treebore »

Absence of skills? In C&C? Everyone has all skills in C&C. They only cannot add level to those skills that any of the classes have.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

By skills I mean a box on the character sheet detailing the numerical bonuses applied to each skill set: athletics, acrobatics, knowledge, streetwise, diplomacy, etc.

Sure, all PC's have all skills, agreed, it just isn't spelled out as in other RPGs. It is far more abstract in C&C which has been very nice by comparison.
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by Treebore »

jdizzy001 wrote:By skills I mean a box on the character sheet detailing the numerical bonuses applied to each skill set: athletics, acrobatics, knowledge, streetwise, diplomacy, etc.

Sure, all PC's have all skills, agreed, it just isn't spelled out as in other RPGs. It is far more abstract in C&C which has been very nice by comparison.

Agreed.

So your saying they want a box where they can add their attribute modifier and level together so they know what their total is for each skill roll related to that attribute?

I guess that would be nice. Never really thought about it since its so easy to add such low numbers together.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

jdizzy001
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Re: setting foot in c&c

Post by jdizzy001 »

Not really. I was just comparing the character sheets for t1r and c&c.
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