C&C Harn?

vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:12 am

Has anyone done a C&C Harn conversion?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:08 pm

I'm not sure if anybody has or not, but this topic sure has been talked about a fair amount over the ages.

~O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:04 pm

I just use the Harn material with the C&C classes as written. The Harn to D20 conversion document, which I think I found on Lythia.com can be helpful. Just after looking at it I decided I may as well keep the classes as is, use the SIEGE engine for skill resolutions, and then just use the Harn history and write ups.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:27 pm

Harn is so awesome. Frankly, I'm intimidated by it. I don't know if I could do it justice. I think Harn has been, over the years, been the most often mentioed setting that people want to convert to their system-of-choice. Good luck with your efforts!
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jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:12 am

I'd look at converting these house rules into C&C:
http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... index.html

From the intro:

"

Here is a summary of my house rules for Swords & Wizardry (with appropriate links). They are intended, when used together, to simulate more closely the swords and sorcery genre, as exemplified in the fiction of Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber.

"

I think it would be pretty easy to pick & choose and convert to C&C. Magic being one of the big differences from typical C&C / D&D-- how low-magic will your players like? I do like Swords & Wizardry's (?) rolling for casting.... And ritual magic....

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:11 am

Yeah, but being on a d6 the chance of failure is higher than I would like.

I don't remember the ritual magic, so I need to go back and read that.
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jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:13 am

Treebore wrote:
Yeah, but being on a d6 the chance of failure is higher than I would like.

I don't remember the ritual magic, so I need to go back and read that.

Well, I don't think he had ritual magic, but it is something of interest that I'd like to find....

And while a 2d6, yeah, a high chance of failure if I remember correctly. I'd prefer a bit lower, although also I may not be remembering right....

vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:42 am

I"m going to start working on a Harn version of C&C. Any suggestions?

Some thoughts I have:

- lose the vancian spellcasting, instead go to a simple roll-for-success spellcasting system, with a +2 or +4 bonus for your convocation

- reassess racial and class abilities & bonuses. Clerics need a lot of attention.

- no paladin or monk... barbarian becomes an Ivinian berserker or something

- druids available only to sindarin, although Fyvria wizards do get some druid spells

- have different fighter abilities depending on whether you're a legionnaire, yeoman, viking, etc

- heralds = bards

- add a mariner class

- add some sort of wound mechanic to emphasize the grittiness of the setting. I'm thinking of a system whereby if you suffer a certain amount of damage in one blow, you receive a Wound, which gives you a -1 penalty to all actions until healed. When your hit points reach zero, everything after that ia an automatic wound. You die at a wound amount equal to CON.

jaguar451 · Post by **jaguar451** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:59 am

I don't know Harn specifically, but like some the Sword & Sorcery ideas.

Did you have a look at the link I posted above? For example:

Magic:

- Spell Point system, where your HP are you Spell Points (although you do start with more HP)

- Colors of Magic

- Black Magic corrupts

- Cleric and Magic-User spell lists combined

Clerics:

- No Cleric class

Fighters:

- Different fighting style

Wound Mechanic:

- No resurrection, so dead is dead

- To balance, start with more HP

- Total HP = CON + 5 + Class HP

- Once get to CON HP, -2 on all rolls. Make save or fall unconscious

- Healing spells only heal CON damage

Not saying you have to go this route, but I think worth checking out.

Another non-vancian idea for magic is to make it a Siege check....

Something like:

Challenge Level = Spell Level

Add character level and INT modifier

If roll > Target Number, spell goes off

If roll > 1/2 Target number, spell goes off next round

If roll < 1/2 Target number, forget spell

If roll = 1, something bad happens

If roll = 20, max effect or ...

(yes, inspired by Spellcraft & Wizardry)

More likely for the spell to fail, but also opportunity to cast more.

Druids limited to a specific racial group sounds interesting.

I'm not a huge Paladin fan (although I forget the name of the book having 'Chosen' ones -- could get some paladin-like abilities in any class if a god chose you (RP possibility or NPC only...)

vivsavage · Post by **vivsavage** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:44 pm

jaguar451 wrote:
I'm not a huge Paladin fan (although I forget the name of the book having 'Chosen' ones -- could get some paladin-like abilities in any class if a god chose you (RP possibility or NPC only...)

I don't like paladins either, although I think the class might be a good fit for followers of Larani, come to think of it.

rob · Post by **rob** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:44 am

I find Harn World and C&C to be an almost perfect fit. Take away a couple of the classes such as Monks, make a few of the races very rare like half orcs, tone down the magic and religion spells some what, then it will work.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:30 am

Is Harn still in publication?

I wouldn't mind picking up another copy.

I don't understand the issue about conversion. I remember Harn to be a system generic setting. I don't remember exactly but I ran a 2E or AD&D Game in Harn without a problem. Maybe I just did not realize I was lacking in proper Harnlore.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:12 am

Joe wrote:
Is Harn still in publication?

I wouldn't mind picking up another copy.

I don't understand the issue about conversion. I remember Harn to be a system generic setting. I don't remember exactly but I ran a 2E or AD&D Game in Harn without a problem. Maybe I just did not realize I was lacking in proper Harnlore.

Yes, its still in print.
http://www.columbiagames.com/

Plus I also wanted to let you know I would be up in Phoenix for the Con I have linked in my sig.
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:00 am

Con sounds cool!

Who could pass up a chance to go to Phoenix in July?

I'll PM you.

But back to Harn...have they done anything with it since the 80's?

Back then I remember being very impressed thinking they were ahead of their time.

When I look at it now it looks almost exactly the same.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:12 am

Based on a few quick glances through some of the stuff for the game, it would not be hard to "convert" it, since it is pretty much straight AD&D anyway. It would be harder to convert Earthdawn.
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danbuter · Post by **danbuter** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:32 am

Harnworld is system free.

For some reason, a lot of people feel the need to convert Harnmaster to their favorite system. I don't understand why.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:53 am

danbuter wrote:
Harnworld is system free.

For some reason, a lot of people feel the need to convert Harnmaster to their favorite system. I don't understand why.

So what is my Harn Master boxed set for? Looks like a system to me.

I agree its extremely easy to port to other systems and worlds, though.

Also don't forget all the awesome freebie stuff at lythia.com
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:55 am

Joe wrote:
Con sounds cool!

Who could pass up a chance to go to Phoenix in July?

I'll PM you.

But back to Harn...have they done anything with it since the 80's?

Back then I remember being very impressed thinking they were ahead of their time.

When I look at it now it looks almost exactly the same.

Good! Looking forward to the PM!

Yes, there is new material, but the look, presentation, and much of the material is still the same as it was back in the 80's.

The best thing to check out is lythia.com, tons of real nice freebies there!
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Thoom · Post by **Thoom** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:03 am

I have everything ever published for Harn. I bought the world before there was a system for it. They published a rule system because people asked them for rules specific to the world, so yes the world is generic enough.

But the thing with Harn is that it's low-fantasy, so it's not always easy to use with a C&C or AD&D system. What I found annoying is that there aren't halflings or gnomes on Harn. Half-orcs are just not a possibility either. Half-elves don't exist but you could insert them easily enough. Halflings and gnomes though, not so easily. Add that to the fact that it's really a low-fantasy world and it becomes somewhat convoluted to use it as the world or a C&C campaign. It's also relatively small, so populating it with various types of dragons, humanoides of all types, lizards, etc. becomes more and more difficult...

There are rules for Harn (Harnmaster), and they are quite interesting. They're just not for my players...
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:41 am

So spice up the fantasy some.

Sounds like a humancentric world that just does not realize halflings and gnomes exist.

Sounds like Harn could use an invasion!

I must admit I pretty much used the map and winged most the rest back in the 80's. I was looking for a world that not everyone knew all about so I could have liberties to create my own spin. I never had anything but the world set.

None the less, I think I'll pick up Harn for nostalgia if nothing else.
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danbuter · Post by **danbuter** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:23 am

Treebore wrote:
So what is my Harn Master boxed set for? Looks like a system to me.

You must have an item no one else in the world does. Harnworld has no system info in it at all. Harnmaster is a separate product, that is not even in a box.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:17 am

danbuter wrote:
You must have an item no one else in the world does. Harnworld has no system info in it at all. Harnmaster is a separate product, that is not even in a box.

Columbia Games has it, they are who I bought it from. Plus I see plenty of game stats in the various products, including Harn Manor, and Harn Master is most definitely in a boxed set, at least the one I have.
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rob · Post by **rob** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:20 pm

As a confirmed Harnmaster fan, I find a goodly number of players like, and are familiar with, the D20 system. Harnmaster is bloody complicated but it does put the ROLE back into role playing, not having a 'hack and slash' every gaming session. The 'hack and slash' gets old rather quickly.

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