Does anyone like the Barbarian

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Does anyone like the Barbarian

Post by cleaverthepit »

Anyone

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?

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Post by Traveller »

I never did. I always believed the barbarian could be emulated using a standard fighter with the "backwoodsy" background a barbarian has.
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Post by anonymous »

I've found that, ever since Unearthed Arcana, attempts at a Barbarian character class have left barbarism fans (for which read "fans of Conan") rather unsatisfied, but I can't really explain why...

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Post by Go0gleplex »

I think it fails to meet the envisioned stereotype established by popular literature. From a game standpoint, there really isn't any point to the class in terms of bringing something unique to the party other than chaos.

Folks hear barbarian and start thinking of an uber-strong, kick-butt killing machine...not a norse type beserker wanna-be. As Traveller said, a fighter or ranger with a bit of tweaking and role playing can actually perform more beneficially than the current barbarian class.
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Post by Jungger »

I like everything about the barbarian in C&C except how Primal Fury was handled.

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Post by Rhuvein »

Jungger wrote:
I like everything about the barbarian in C&C except how Primal Fury was handled.

Yep, I agree - I changed it so the barbarian doesn't turn on his friends after finishing off his enemies. They (his fellow PCs) recognize his fury and tend to stay away from his melee combat. So, the barbarian will wind down his rage at the end of combat and regain his control.

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Post by slimykuotoan »

For me, the C&C barbarian was a let down because of the image I had of them from popular culture growing up.

Yip, Conan, every fantasy movie made throughout the eighties, and etcetera.

So I had an impression of a guy who could go in battle dressed in loin cloth to take out baddies.

Not realistic, but cool.

The C&C barbarian I imagine, is based more upon the 'historical figure', so it's basically a guy who can't fight very well, has no real class advantages, and has to suit up in platemail just to be a 'less than a fighter but o.k in battle somewhat'.

IMO, this class completely missed the mark created by fantasy fiction and fantasy movies.
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Post by Turanil »

Primal fury is an hindrance. With slight adjustments, the class as is could be okay.

-- Primal Fury: +2 to all saves, to hit, and damage for entire combat duration. Then, lets dispense with fatigue altogether.

-- Damage reduction could be replaced with some AC bonus when wearing barbarian armors ("leather and fur").

Other than that, having some hate for enemy spellcasters, bonus to hit obviously magical/unnatural creatures, and a dislike of complex magical items (i.e.: anything but a straight +1 or +2 something, and the simplest of potions) would be cool.

I know, none did ask for particular houserules...
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Re: Does anyone like the Barbarian

Post by gideon_thorne »

What the Barbarian really needs is the survival skills mentioned in the descriptive paragraph spelled out as a class ability.

And perhaps a multiple use per day on the rage ability, as well as a will check to either bring the barbarian out of it or to avoid attacking ones own party members. That seems to be the biggest beef. Even if the rage ability is reworded to the effect that the class only attacks those who register as hostiles, that ought to work.
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Post by Zebulon »

The rage ability is pretty useless : little benefits and then hindered for half a day. I changed that to a +2 bonus to damage with some tribal weapon (battle axe for Celts, greatsword for Vikings, longbow for Huns, etc.). The suggestion to harken back to 1e barbarians who hated magic has some appeal.
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Post by Rigon »

I like the Barbarian as it is, however, since I view barbarian as a culture and not as a class I changed the name of the class to Berserker. That name fits better in my view of what the class is about.

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Post by Treebore »

It is the only class in the PH I am not interested in playing.
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Post by ChaosImp »

Arrg ! Not another I hate the Barbie thread. Well since there is one I'll be one of the few that thinks the Barbarian is fine as it is.

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Post by Omote »

I have yet to have any players want to play the barbarian. The penalties are too large, and the fighter is just better at everything that the barbarian is supposed to do anyway. Peter Bradley also hit on a good point, why not give them some "terrain" survival abilites.

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Post by Lord Dynel »

I like it okay. I agree the penalty for Primal Fury is a little too steep. I think that I'd go with the penalties for one hour, instead of four, if at all. I'd probably also eliminate the chance to attack a friend, or up the check bonus to +4.

I used to think that the barbarian was a little out of place in the genre, too, but I'm starting to rethink that...especially after comparing it to other classes like the ranger (a backwoodsy fighter/rogue) and the knight (a chilvaric fighter). I don't mind it there as an additional option. I don't know if I'd ever play one, but I don't mind them being there and present in my campaign.
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Post by danbuter »

I made up my own Berserker class to replace it.
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Post by Julian Grimm »

It is one of the three classes I have no interest in. Of course I didn't like them in UA either. If I want that archtype in my games I use a fighter or ranger coming from a tribe. I also agree Berserker fits better as a name for the class.
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Post by moriarty777 »

I think the Barbarian as presented in the PHB is a solid class... as solid as any other presented. For what it is, I like it fine.

However, a few people touched various points... the Barbarian such as it is can be readily played as a Berserker. For people who want to make a character like 'Conan', they just need to adapt either the Fighter or Ranger for that. Or, if they use some sort of multi-class rules, combining a couple of classes might also do the trick.

Having seen a couple of things with the Barbarian class that James Mishler presented, I'd be half tempted to modify a couple abilities to match that version but haven't bother to do so simply because the existing one is pretty solid.

I've pretty have played or have had a player play every class in the book and haven't had any issues with any of them.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

Conan would be a Fighter/Thief mix. IMNSHO.
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Post by Rigon »

When I think of a "barbarian," I don't nessecarily think of Conan. I think of stoneage cultures (Native Americans, Zulus, etc). When I read the class abilities of the Barbarian class, I think of Norse and Celtic berserkers, hence my name change for the class.

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Post by Rigon »

And as for the "drawbacks" of Primal Fury, I changed the fatigue so it only lasts 4 hours minus Con modifier. I like the fact that a berserker may attack other party members while in the throwes of the Fury. Makes having a berserker in the party just a bit dangerous.

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Post by Lord Dynel »

Julian Grimm wrote:
Conan would be a Fighter/Thief mix. IMNSHO.

I think that's what the 1st Edition AD&D modules stat him out as.
Rigon wrote:
When I think of a "barbarian," I don't nessecarily think of Conan. I think of stoneage cultures (Native Americans, Zulus, etc).

Right on. That's my take on it. I think that the main thing for me is - why I don't have too much a problem with the barbarian (anymore) - is that while the class can be replicated as a fighter with some background flavor, I feel that this cultural difference is large enough to warrant a different set of rules, thus a different class. If I want a Conan-type "barbarian" then playing a fighter/rogue would be the best way to go.
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Re: Does anyone like the Barbarian

Post by bighara »

gideon_thorne wrote:
What the Barbarian really needs is the survival skills mentioned in the descriptive paragraph spelled out as a class ability.
zebulon wrote:
The rage ability is pretty useless : little benefits and then hindered for half a day.

Exactly my thoughts! Which is why my house rules give Barbarians the same Survival(WIS) ability as Rangers (no Tracking. though) and I reduced the fatigue effect to one hour.
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Re: Does anyone like the Barbarian

Post by gideon_thorne »

Heh, one of the best examples of barbarian rage I've seen, and not hard to emulate mechanically, is the Berserker character from Lodos War.

Only attacks those who are an armed threat.
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Post by Go0gleplex »

Lodoss War was a good example of the gods playing games with their human pawns...and how their own perceptions and goals cross wire everyone's existence.
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Post by Breakdaddy »

I dislike the barbarian as written as well. I hope that you do a REWRITE ON IT, Davis.
Some good suggestions in this thread. I would make the rage ability less useless especially vis a vis attacking fellow party members (and let him use it more than once per day). I would also probably add AC bonuses for fighting unarmored or lightly armored. And YES what Peter said about making survival a class ability. I would personally give him a bit of a speed boost as well, but that may just be my mental throwback to AD&D 1st ed UA.
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Post by gideon_thorne »

Might give the Barbarian the combat progression of the fighter as well.
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Post by moriarty777 »

gideon_thorne wrote:
Might give the Barbarian the combat progression of the fighter as well.

Kinda have to disagree on that one (but that's only my Opinion). I don't have my PHB (in any format) handy with me today but isn't the Barbarians EPP less than that of a Fighter?

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Post by serleran »

I like the barbarian, as a concept -- I do hold that the class is pointless, but I also think "barbarian" is more a culture than an archetype.
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Post by gideon_thorne »

moriarty777 wrote:
Kinda have to disagree on that one (but that's only my Opinion). I don't have my PHB (in any format) handy with me today but isn't the Barbarians EPP less than that of a Fighter?

M

No, its actually more.
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