Do items have hitpoints?

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mmtbb
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Do items have hitpoints?

Post by mmtbb »

I was looking through the book, and on the treads, but I couldn't find a good answer.

in some d&d editions items have hitpoints and hardness. For instance, a solid oak door would have, say 30 hp. Once your damage totaled the hp, the item would break.

Are there rules like this in C&C?

serleran
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Post by serleran »

No.

Items have saving throws. There are two threads on that very subject:
Here

and
Here

"Hardness" is a d20 concept -- C&C is not a d20 game.

That doesn't mean that the concept is bad. In fact, it can be quite handy. But, C&C has a different philosophy of design, notably: the rules are not the master -- the Castle Keeper is. So, a lot of these, arguably minor details, were either ignored or left out intentionally.

I know many people use the d20 DC system (modified for C&C) to determine when, say, a door is broken. I, personally, just require X Strength to do it (almost like pre-d20 D&D) most often.

Now, that all said, the Yggsburgh campaign hardcover has some "hit points" for items but only concerning weapons and armor.

mmtbb
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Post by mmtbb »

I guess that's one way to handle it. Should be quicker at least.

And what about slashing damage? There should be a column for this.

serleran
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Post by serleran »

The table provided was based on AD&D -- there was no slashing save in AD&D, so, no conversion. By the way, the system linked in the threads is unofficial, technically.

But, it would be very easy to adjudicate a "slash save" based on what is already there.

mmtbb
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Post by mmtbb »

Ok.

ps. I suppose there IS an official C&C items saving throw table, or rule somewhere? Did this get released?

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gideon_thorne
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Post by gideon_thorne »

mmtbb wrote:
Ok.

ps. I suppose there IS an official C&C items saving throw table, or rule somewhere? Did this get released?

None that I'm aware of. Unless there's a plan to put such in the eventual Castle Keepers Guide.
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serleran
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Post by serleran »

The official rule for item saving throws are in Monsters and Treasure, page 89. It is not a table like in previous editions -- that was something I did, as an experiment, and as a houserule -- some like it, some modify it.

Thoom
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Post by Thoom »

Page 115 of the players' handbook:
Quote:
HIT POINTS: Hit points represent a bodys ability to withstand damage. A creatures hit points equals the amount of damage it can take before being killed or knocked unconscious. An objects hit points equals the amount of damage it can take before being broken.

So I guess that objects were intended to have hit points, but someone changed his mind.

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Go0gleplex
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Post by Go0gleplex »

Or it was left up to the CK to assign the hit points they felt appropriate for the item in question.
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Thoom
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Post by Thoom »

Go0gleplex wrote:
Or it was left up to the CK to assign the hit points they felt appropriate for the item in question.

Or that yes
Since the semi-official/insider answers were to the effect that items don't have HP, I figured the idea was dropped. But you're right, the CK can have a go at assigning AC and HP to objects of course. Or use other editions as a source.

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Relaxo
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Post by Relaxo »

serleran wrote:
... notably: the rules are not the master -- the Castle Keeper is. So, a lot of these, arguably minor details, were either ignored or left out intentionally.

Seems like in earlier editions the DM/CK was encouraged to make things up on the spot as needed, where in the d20 stuff there are so many detailed rules that DMs seem reluctant to do so.

I think society as a whole is trending in this direction, less self-reliance and more rules and guidance from authorities. (TOTAL THREAD DRIFT, sorry)

But yeah, just do whatever makes sense, especially in terms of the story.

Lets say your players, down to 3 hp each, are running from ogres who they can't possibly defeat. The players are trying to hack down a door while the horde of ogres is hunting them... your pc's fail the strength check to break the door, ok, let's hack it with our axe.... um... doors don't move, so I'd say you automatically hit. roll your damage, 8 points... how many do doors have?

I'm here to say, who cares? tell the players the door stands but the ogres are still coming! now they know where you are because of all the chopping noise! EEK!

roll again, now the ogres see you! oh no! Roll more damage... you're not even counting (but act like you are) and finally, the door crumbles, thankfully! we can now escape the ogres.... (can't lock them out though, pity that)

My point is... doesn't that sound more dramatic than "I beat it's hardness and it breaks" you know what I'm saying?

Whing it with confidence, sell it all as great storytelling and roleplaying in lieu of stoopid rollplaying.
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serleran
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Post by serleran »

Quote:
An objects hit points equals the amount of damage it can take before being broken.

I think that is a residual effect. I do not recall the design ever anticipating such things as standard rules because it is an unnecessary complication, something C&C attempted to avoid whenever possible (hence, the vagueness of numerous "rules.") The simplest way to explain the C&C design: less is more.

deimos3428
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Post by deimos3428 »

Relaxo wrote:
Whing it with confidence, sell it all as great storytelling and roleplaying in lieu of stoopid rollplaying.

I completely agree, but I find it handy to have an official rule to completely ignore.
(That way the players think they're in serious trouble, when in reality you're just making it all up as you go along.)

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