4E hating?

shane · Post by **shane** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:16 pm

So, as C&C fans, do we hate 4E with the white hot intensity of a thousand fiery suns? What's the party line?

Hee, ok, that was just kind of a joke.

I don't plan on playing 4E, but I'll certainly buy the core books to read and 'just have'.

What about you guys?
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:31 pm

Honestly. No one should 'hate' a game. If a given system is not to someones choice thats fine. The world is full of diversity, and IMHO, there are much more important things folks could be debating that obsessively over other than a fun hobby.

There are folks that abjectly hate C&C for some inexplicable reason.

In the end it boils down to respect. If someone doesn't like our deal, I'll be happy to direct them to something else that might suit their tastes better.

When promoting our system, always remember that there are folks who wont be interested no matter how politely one puts the offering. Just let it go and move on.

No need to smother folks.
Also, there is never a need to tout our game by thrashing someone else's. Tisn't polite. <----that is the party line.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:36 pm

This topic has been brought up a few times, but I'm game.

My personal thoughts on 4e differ from most. I LOVE it.

Now, let me tell you why.

I don't know if I'll actually care for the rules or even play it, but I'm so full of 4e love for one simple reason.

It makes the 3e fanboys weep and gnash their teeth.

I know it is hateful of me but I'm cool with that. The hoards to angst ridden 3e'ers makes me grin like a mad man. After years of hearing them tout their superiority and tell fans of previous editions that they are ignorant for not switching to the most current version of the game....

Full circle baby!

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:53 pm

I'm with Peter. I don't have any outright "hate" for 4e (especially since I haven't seen the final product yet) and I probably won't play it unless I happen to fall into a regular game that uses the system (as a player mind you). RPG's are like music: there's some stuff that I really don't care for, but not everyone can like the same thing (please see the Zeppelin thread ). I could definitely see DD's point about enjoying the crushing blow dealt to dorks who think that their way of rolling dice and adding modifiers is superior to our way of rolling dice and adding modifiers. Those same guys will be saving up their money from working at the big box store when they're 30 to buy whatever new gaming system is out at the time, so take heart.

GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:57 pm

My evil side feels this way x 10

Quote:
I know it is hateful of me but I'm cool with that. The hoards to angst ridden 3e'ers makes me grin like a mad man. After years of hearing them tout their superiority and tell fans of previous editions that they are ignorant for not switching to the most current version of the game....

Full circle baby!

My good side feels this way

Quote:
I am looking forward to 4E and what the games makers come up with. While I might not love every edition of D&D I can say that every edition has brought more gamers into the fold and come up with some new and fun things. I think they try to make the game the best and often put a lot of love into it. Every RPGer should be able to find the gooness in that even if they dont agree with the direction the game takes.

So in short im happy either way. Maybe just a little too happy at the rantings and teeth gnashing of the same people who told me my 2E game was dead and get with the program or get rolled over.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:58 pm

I don't hate 4E anymore than I hate 3E. They just aren't D&D to me. People want to call that "hate" but if I hated 3E I wouldn't own:

WOTC

PHB x3

PHB 3.5x3

DMG 3.5

MM 3.5

DMG x2

MM x2

MM2

MM3

Fiend Folio

Epic LVL HB

Tome and Blood x2

Song and Silence

Sword and Fist

Defenders of The Faith

Hero Builders Guidebook

Monsters of Faerun

Character Sheets

Heart of Nightfang Spire

The Forge of Fury

DM Screen (3.0/3.5)

Deep Horizon

The Speaker in Dreams

Lord of the Iron Fortress

Bastion of Broken Souls

RttToEE

The Sunless Citadel

The Standing Stone

Draconomicon

Complete Warrior

Complete Divine

Complete Arcane

Complete Adventurer

Libris Mortis

Lords of Madness

Map Folio I, 2, and 3 (35)

Forgotten Realms

City of the Spider Queen

Campaign Setting

Magic of Faerun

Silver Marches

Wheel of Time

Oriental Adventures

D20 modern

Rokugan

Creatures of Rokugan

Magic of Rokugon

Secrets of the Dragon

D20 Traveller

Kalamar

Invasion of Arun'Kid

Midnights Terror

Root of All Evil

Harvest of Darkness

Geanavue

Players Guide

Atlas

Campaign setting

Forging darkness

Deathright

Siren's Prize

Coins end

Aldrivs Revenge

3.5 DM Screen (59)

Mystic Eye Games

The Witch of Loch-Durnan

The Pit ofLoch Durnan

Necromancer

Hall of the Rainbow Mage

The Lost City of Barakus x2

Demons and Devils

Vault of Larin Karr

Siege of Durgams Folly

Rappan Athuk 1 to 3

Rappan Athuk: Reloaded x2

Tomb of Abysthor

Where Chaos Reigns

Grey Citadel

The Crucible of Freya

A Lamentation of Thieves

Players Guide to The Wilderlands

Vampires and Liches

Book of Taverns

Necropolis

Durbanford

Mother of All Encounter Tables

BoneGarden

Raise The Dead

Aberrations

Tome of horrors I

Tome of Horrors II

Tome of horrors 3

Wilderlands

Caverns of Thracia

Dead Mans Chest

City State of the Inv. Overlord

Bards Gate

Diamond Fortress

Doom of Listonshire

Family Affair

Troll Lord Games

Book of Familiars

Path of The Magi

Codex of Erde

Winter Runes

Dark Druids

The Fantastic Adventure

St. Anton's Fire

The Malady of Kings

The Mortality of Green

A Lion in the Ropes

Falsentheim: Dogs of War

Dzeebagd: Under Dark and Misty Ground

Yakhund: Into the Unkknown (99)

Castles and Crusades PH

C&C Monsters and Treasures

C&C Modules:

Assault on Black Tooth Ridge

Slag Heap

Halflings Hall

Mysterious Tower

Forsaken Hand

Castle Zagyg (Gary Gygax's Greyhawk Castle)

Sword and Sorcery

Book of Eldritch Might 2: Songs andSouls of Power

Book of Eldritch Might 1

Book of Hallowed might

Mithril, City of golems

Hallowfaust, City of Necromancers

Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen

Complete Book of Might

Arcana Evolved

Relics and Rituals

Giants Skull

NeMorans Vault

Creature Collection

Goodman Games

Complete Guide to Wererats

Comp. guide to Dopplegangers

Comp. guide to Liches

Monsters of the Endless Dark

(seriously need to update this, like 15 more modules!)

Paradigm

Spear of the Logain

Legends and Lairs-Fantasy Flight Games

Seafarers Handbook

Spells and Spellcraft

Traps and Treachery

Traps and Treachery II

Path of Magic

Portals and Planes

City Works

Dungeon Craft

Mythic Races

Fast Forward Entertainment

Dungeonworld

Wondrous Items of Power

Swords of Power

Citizen Games

Tome of The Dragon

Castle Dunmere

Secret at Greenrock

Green ronin

Book of the Righteous

Legions of Hell

Arcana: Societies of magic

Secret College of Necromancy

Tales of Freeport

Fang and Fury

The Book of Fiends

Thieves Quarter

Clerics Quarter

5th Year Anniversary of Freeport adventures

Witch's Handbook

Psychics Handbook

Nobles Handbook

Book of Fiends

Penumbra

Seven Strongholds

The Tide of Years

Thieves in the Forest

3 Days to kill

Belly of The Beast

touched by the Gods

AEG-Alderac entertainment

Monster

(see previously listed Rokugan)

Mongoose

Seas of Blood

Skraag, City of Orcs

Quintessential Samurai

Bastion Press

Alchemy and Herbalist

Spells and Magic

Pale Designs: Poisoners Handbook

Guildcraft

Oathbound: Domains of the Forge

Oathbound Plains of Penance

Villains x2

Faeiries

Arms and Armor

Allies and Adversaries

Minions

Gaming Frontiers issues 1-5

Ravenloft-Art Haus

Van Richtens Arsenal

Champions of Darkness

Gaz Vol 1-4

Core Rule Book

Denizens of Darkness x3

Ravenloft DMG

Ravenloft Limited Edition

Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead

Secrets of The Dread Realms x2

Scarab Games

Brotherhood of Prophecy

Engel

Starfarers Handbbok

and a whole lot more.

So I laughed every time people on ENWorld and rpg nut house called me a 3E hater.

The biggest difference with me and 4E is I have absolutely no intention of EVER DMing it. Playing is always an option, I think. With all the stuff it looks like even characters will have to keep track of I'm not even sure about that anymore.

Hate? No. Not a game I get excited about? Yes. Which is sad, because I have been excited about every edition for over two decades, and now the changing of the guards has changed for me. Kind of like retiring from a job you actually loved doing.

Thankfully I got the best "retirement job" I've ever had with C&C. It has literally turned out to be the perfect game for me that I have been wanting since 1E.
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Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:07 pm

I have heard enough about the game to know that i won't like it. It's World-of-Everquesting-Camelot, the tabletop version.

I urge everyone who doesn't like it, to not buy it. I mean, WotC doesn't care if we play it or not. So we could whine about how bad it is, and not make any difference. It'll take poor sales for them to change their direction.

-Fizz

GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:07 pm

Gosh Treebore you dont have every 3.5 product?

your such a 3E Hater! For shame!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:12 pm

GameOgre wrote:
Gosh Treebore you dont have every 3.5 product?

your such a 3E Hater! For shame!

The only things I don't have for 3E, that are WOTC are their environment series and their Eberron stuff. Oh, and 3 of the FR books. Or their newest MM.

Other than that I do have everything. Plus a whole lot more third party stuff that isn't in that list, like 16 more Green Ronin products, 41 Goodman Games DCC's, more Necromancer Games, Paizo Pathfinder and Game Mastery, etc...

So yeah, I am a pretty pathetic D&D gaming addict. Fortunately it looks like 4E is going to break me of D&D and allow me to be addicted to other games.

Don't know if thats going to be better for my wallet and book shelves, but we'll see.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:22 pm

Oh.. and I know the original post was made in humor, but lets not turn this into an edition thrashing thread. There's far too much of that nonsense going on everywhere else. And its really not tolerated here.

Accentuating the positives of what current and new editions might bring to your own enjoyment is far preferable.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:39 pm

I hate it all. Makes it less possible for anyone to say you're biased.

shane · Post by **shane** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:17 pm

serleran wrote:
I hate it all. Makes it less possible for anyone to say you're biased.

Your avatar looks like it hates it all so that's fitting.
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shane · Post by **shane** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:20 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Oh.. and I know the original post was made in humor

Yes, yes, I was just kidding. I've had enough RPG hating over at the Hrnforum to last several life times.
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Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:06 pm

It depends on the scope of hatred. I mean, it's one thing to hate a game (because it's badly designed or unenjoyable, etc). And it's another thing to hate it because of what it might do to the industry. And it's yet another thing to hate people who like it.

If people like it, that's fine. But i have full rights to hate the game itself.
-Fizz

GameOgre · Post by **GameOgre** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:13 pm

I know its off topic some but anyone else LOVE bad Role playing games? I mean really over the top bad games? I find that I MUST play them. It's like my BAD movie habbit I guess.
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:15 pm

1) How can one hate something which is currently unknown?

2) IT IS A GAME!

So, no, I may not like the game, and hate towards an object is at least silly. I may get into verbal "brawls" with the 3e fanboys, but that's more on philosophical grounds than anything else. Play with what you like, and have fun.

Besides, from what I am reading (not much, really), I might actually LIKE 4e. I guess it is difficult to do worse than 3e, after all. Yes, I am an optimist

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:34 pm

Put me in th HATE crowd, but to me it's not unknown. Because I follow RPGs in general, I have been following the development of 4E. There is so much I don't like about it, it's immesurable. Essentially, all the "Dungeons & Dragons" aspect of the game is, is nothing more then a brand name slapped on a game that IMO is not D&D.

-O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:42 pm

Quote:
I mean really over the top bad games?

Have you got Cyborg Commando?

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:00 pm

shane wrote:
So, as C&C fans, do we hate 4E with the white hot intensity of a thousand fiery suns? What's the party line?

Hee, ok, that was just kind of a joke.

I don't plan on playing 4E, but I'll certainly buy the core books to read and 'just have'.

What about you guys?

That's an awfully expensive 'just have', dude. I bought a used WHFRP 1st edition for $20 for 'just have'. That's about as far as I'm going to go for a book unless I am going to play the system. Or plan to play the system (we actually came close with WHFRP). I would rather have a lot of other games instead, like d6Space or something. I know a couple of the guys expressed interest in playing that one.

My next 'just have' (whenever my budget will allow such a thing) is more likely to be GURPS Fantasy then D&D4.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:57 pm

GameOgre wrote:
I know its off topic some but anyone else LOVE bad Role playing games? I mean really over the top bad games? I find that I MUST play them. It's like my BAD movie habbit I guess.

Nope. I don't have as much time as I would like to play the good ones.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:15 am

Quote:
I bought a used WHFRP 1st edition for $20 for 'just have'.

You over-paid. Should've asked me. I got a spare... its even the Games Workshop version (not the later re-release.)

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:28 am

I think I've run my cycle of 4E feelings.

Initial AMUSEMENT: another edition...look at all the hoopla...glad I'm not in the market...

Mild DISGUST at some of the previews: what are they doing to magic...etc.

Flickering INTEREST that perhaps if I viewed 4E as a different game and "not D&D," it might be worth playing.

Complete INDIFFERENCE: decided I didn't want to spend money on (another) system I won't play, much. I'll just stick with what I like.
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Montague · Post by **Montague** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:41 am

Hatred would imply caring.
That being said, I'm not going to go on some "damn fool idealistic crusade". If our gaming group wants to run it I'll probably buy some books. (once we find a gaming group up here, that is. )

JediOre · Post by **JediOre** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:55 am

I'm not interested at all.

That said, if folks enjoy their time gaming with 4th edition, more power to 'em.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:32 am

serleran wrote:
You over-paid. Should've asked me. I got a spare... its even the Games Workshop version (not the later re-release.)

The point was that it was cheaper then $35 times 3 (cost of core rulebooks for D&D3). And I think WotC has let slip that D&D4 was going to cost more then D&D3.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:51 am

CharlieRock wrote:
And I think WotC has let slip that D&D4 was going to cost more then D&D3.

Not that I've seen. The last price I hears about was $20 for the players guide and not much more for the other two.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:58 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Not that I've seen. The last price I hears about was $20 for the players guide and not much more for the other two.

Really? Then they changed it, because when they showed the listing on AMazon (which I admittedly haven't paid attention to in over two months) it was around $40.00. But I'll go look again and see whats going on.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:07 am

$35 is what they are currently showing on the product page at WOTC.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=pr ... /217367200
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:07 am

No hate for 4E, just pure LUVVVV (in a Hicks - from Aliens, voice)!
Seriously, though - no hate, just lack of interest mostly. I'll might be curious from a marketing or gaming in general trends standpoint. But who knows, by the time it comes out - I'll most likely have forgotten it,

People that want to try and welcome to it.

My world is O&AD&D, C&C and LA. Other interests include Metamorphasis Alpha, Star Frontiers, WHFRP and mebbe a few others. So much great stuff, old and new from these games, no time to waste on 4E, IMO.

Game on!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:10 am

Quote:
The last price I hears about was $20 for the players guide and not much more for the other two.

You've obviously forgotten that there aren't "three books" needed for D&D4. There are the three normal ones, and then the 500 racial books, the 6000 ability books (12 additional for each new race), and the 25 DM guides to the same. Then, there is the online content, which is mandatory to purchase in order to understand 99% of the stuff in the books.

Troll Lord Games

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