Saving Throws

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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The 8th Samurai
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Saving Throws

Post by The 8th Samurai »

I was looking over some of the monsters in the Monsters & Treasures book. Some monsters have abilities that require the player to make a save (strength, constitution, etc). I understand the SIEGE system but was wondering about the modifier to the save.

1. Do I add the monster's HD (as you do for its attack) or do I just come up with whatever modifier I feel is appropriate. For example, the gelantious cube can paralyze the victim unless the victim makes a strength save. Do I add the HD of the gelantious cube to the challenge class of the save (in this case +4)?

2. Also, players are required to make a strength check against a monster, such as when a snake is constricting. Do I also add the HD of the snake (or whatever monster they are involved with) to the challenge class of the check?

Happy gaming

serleran
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Post by serleran »

Yes, unless otherwise indicated by the ability, HD is the difficulty.

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moriarty777
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Post by moriarty777 »

Yep... nice and simple... and potentially very deadly!

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Breakdaddy
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Post by Breakdaddy »

Roger that!
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serleran
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Post by serleran »

It has, mostly, to do with a certain archetype notion, namely, that clerics would be better than most at such things, as per another game that rendered such. Clerics will generally have the best Wisdom (and its obviously Prime for them), followed by Charisma (this is an assumption, not a rule) and so, to mimic this concept, death is based against it...

And, then, there is the whole "every attribute means something" approach, and the fact that these "rules" aren't really rules - they are guidelines. Charisma doesn't help you against a purely physical death attack (drowning, for example) so the Castle Keeper will have to modify what uses what when needed, as is logical to them.

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Post by Turanil »

Base is siege engine: roll above 11 if prime, above 17 if not. Add the caster level (or monster's HD) to these numbers, and then add the character's level to the d20 saving throw roll.

Ex: 6th level rogue saves vs fireball cast by 8th level wizard. Rogue must roll a 14 or better.
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Jackal
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Post by Jackal »

Welcome to the Crusade!
The only other thing you need to know about saves is which attribute to use. The saving throw section gives you general guidelines on that but, most often, the individual spell will tell you which attribute to use.

Other than that, a saving throw is a standard attribute check with a different name really.

Joobyjub
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Post by Joobyjub »

So it would basically work like this.

A level 8 caster is using a spell against a lv 8 fighter.

The challenge level of the spell would be 12 (prime) plus the casters level making it 20.

So the fighter would roll a d-20 and get a 12 (+1 for attribute mod making 13) and add his level 8 thus he gets a 21 total and saves vs the spell?

Thoom
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Post by Thoom »

Joobyjub wrote:
So it would basically work like this.

A level 8 caster is using a spell against a lv 8 fighter.

The challenge level of the spell would be 12 (prime) plus the casters level making it 20.

So the fighter would roll a d-20 and get a 12 (+1 for attribute mod making 13) and add his level 8 thus he gets a 21 total and saves vs the spell?

That is my understanding as well (I'm about to start my first campaign using C&C like you). The spell description mentions if there is a save, if so which ability and its effect (like charisma negate or dexterity save half). What's nice also is that the description mentions if Spell Resistance applies.

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Breakdaddy
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Post by Breakdaddy »

Yeah just make sure that the spell's save is a prime or non prime for the affected target and you should be good to go. If it's a strength save (and the aforementioned character is a fighter) then yes, it would go off the 12 base (prime) and add casters level to the difficulty. Then the fighter must roll his d20 and add his strength bonus (if any) and level to the roll and beat the target number.
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Joobyjub
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Post by Joobyjub »

Well I suppose that the only question I really have left is in regards to INT bonuses.

I remember reading somewhere in 3ED D&D that the wizard (or casters) adds their primary stat bonus to the total damage the spell does. I was curious if the same rules apply for C&C.

IE: The wizard succeeds at hitting a target with a spell, so he rolls 2D6 and gets an 8, then he adds his INT bonus of 2 and the total damage comes out to be 10 points of damage.

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Post by Turanil »

Joobyjub wrote:
Well I suppose that the only question I really have left is in regards to INT bonuses.

I remember reading somewhere in 3ED D&D that the wizard (or casters) adds their primary stat bonus to the total damage the spell does. I was curious if the same rules apply for C&C.

IE: The wizard succeeds at hitting a target with a spell, so he rolls 2D6 and gets an 8, then he adds his INT bonus of 2 and the total damage comes out to be 10 points of damage.

It was not in the 3e core rules, but maybe a feat in some later supplement. However, the save's DC was increased by the caster's Int modifier. In any case, this doesn't exist in C&C. Nonetheless, you could add it as a houserule of yours if you like it.
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Joobyjub
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Post by Joobyjub »

Alright ladies and gents, you guys are awesome and I owe you for saving me many headaches!

Thanks a bunch for the assistance!

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Post by Treebore »

However the only thing keeping the caster from rolling some kind of SIEGE check to maximize the spell damage is you, the CK.

To maximize a spell, increase the duration, increase the AoE, etc... in my games I require a SIEGE check with the CL being 3+spell level. Failure means loss of spell.

IE there are no limitations in C&C, unless the CK imposes them.
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Jackal
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Post by Jackal »

Treebore wrote:
However the only thing keeping the caster from rolling some kind of SIEGE check to maximize the spell damage is you, the CK.

To maximize a spell, increase the duration, increase the AoE, etc... in my games I require a SIEGE check with the CL being 3+spell level. Failure means loss of spell.

IE there are no limitations in C&C, unless the CK imposes them.

Well said! Happy gaming.

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