Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

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Pat Payne
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Pat Payne »

Arduin wrote:
concobar wrote:I was tricked. I guess it is bad on me that I do not put such ass hatery off the table as it concerns WotC.
I wish WotC WOULD do something this stupid. It would put C&C's name out there ever more and would make for a great counter-suit and income for the Trolls. Any judge with more than one brain cell would fry the plaintiff and their atty's while ruling for Trolls with prejudice.
I really hope they don't. It wouldn't end up as David v. Goliath so much as USSR v. Hungary. Hasbro (who would be the corporate and legal money men for any courtroom fight) has enough money and attorneys to bury TLG even if the Troll Lords win, as litigation is costly. And, as was mentioned back about five years ago with the panic over that OSR module that shamelessly ripped the AD&D name for a publicity stunt (luckily, they heeded the C&D), all it takes is one clueless judge or legal clerk to write an opinion that knocks the bottom out of the tub of the OGL.

Don't believe me? Look at the just-concluded "Blurred Lines" lawsuit. Basically Gaye's estate won not on direct plagiarism but over them stealing the "feel" of Gaye's song. And many musicians are looking nervously over their shoulders worrying now whether their compositions might inadvertently run afoul of the new legal paradigm the ruling kicks up.

Blessedly, Hasbro and WotC have no interest and really no legal reason to do so.

I've no interest in going into the dungeon and rousing the sleeping dragon. (Yes, I saw what I did there. I'll stop now. :) )

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Arduin
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Arduin »

Pat Payne wrote:
Arduin wrote:
concobar wrote:I was tricked. I guess it is bad on me that I do not put such ass hatery off the table as it concerns WotC.
I wish WotC WOULD do something this stupid. It would put C&C's name out there ever more and would make for a great counter-suit and income for the Trolls. Any judge with more than one brain cell would fry the plaintiff and their atty's while ruling for Trolls with prejudice.
I really hope they don't. It wouldn't end up as David v. Goliath so much as USSR v. Hungary. Hasbro (
Nope. You have insufficient understanding of the law involved.
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Buttmonkey
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Buttmonkey »

Arduin wrote:
Pat Payne wrote:
Arduin wrote:
concobar wrote:I was tricked. I guess it is bad on me that I do not put such ass hatery off the table as it concerns WotC.
I wish WotC WOULD do something this stupid. It would put C&C's name out there ever more and would make for a great counter-suit and income for the Trolls. Any judge with more than one brain cell would fry the plaintiff and their atty's while ruling for Trolls with prejudice.
I really hope they don't. It wouldn't end up as David v. Goliath so much as USSR v. Hungary. Hasbro (
Nope. You have insufficient understanding of the law involved.
I am a lawyer and I really don't think you know what you are talking about here. Litigation is expensive. Litigation between a small business and a massive corporation is brutally expensive. While it's silly to speculate about the fallout from WotC filing a frivolous lawsuit they clearly have no interest in filing, if such a thing were to happen, it would be financially devastating. Think back to when New Infinities Productions was dragged through litigation hell by TSR and ultimately destroyed. When I say it would be financially devastating, I'm not talking about TLG losing. I'm talking about how much it would cost to fight the case. Fortunately, WotC is not a cartoon villain and such a lawsuit is not forthcoming.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

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Arduin
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Arduin »

Buttmonkey wrote:[

Nope. You have insufficient understanding of the law involved.
I am a lawyer and I really don't think you know what you are talking about here. Litigation is expensive. [/quote]

I know several IP atty's that would take it for the chance to counter-sue Hasbro (if as stated Hasbro sued for TL's using the SRD). They would end up getting paid by Hasbro.

One of them works for an IP Firm with offices around the world and plays in my group. I'll take his advise as its his specialty, over yours. ;) (my company had them on a $100k/year retainer.)
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Buttmonkey
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Buttmonkey »

Arduin wrote:
Buttmonkey wrote:
Arduin wrote:Nope. You have insufficient understanding of the law involved.
I am a lawyer and I really don't think you know what you are talking about here. Litigation is expensive.
I know several IP atty's that would take it for the chance to counter-sue Hasbro (if as stated Hasbro sued for TL's using the SRD). They would end up getting paid by Hasbro.

One of them works for an IP Firm with offices around the world and plays in my group. I'll take his advise as its his specialty, over yours. ;) (my company had them on a $100k/year retainer.)
You are completely missing my point. Unless someone finds an attorney willing to take the case on a pro bono basis (or at least willing to waive fees if there isn't an award of fees in the final decision), then you're fronting vast legal expenses out of pocket. As you pointed out, your "company had them on a $100k/year retainer". That pretty much makes my point for me. I'm dubious whether there would be an award for attorney fees in such a case, but I'll defer to what you say an IP specialist said. I'm also dubious about what basis there would be for a counter-suit, but that really isn't the point. The trick is surviving long enough to get such an award and collecting it. Again, harken back to New Infinities Productions if you want an example of how this plays out in the real world.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

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Buttmonkey
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Buttmonkey »

The American rule says each side ordinarily pays its own attorney fees. Other countries say loser pays fees. There are upsides and downsides to each approach.

I suppose it's possible WotC could be sanctioned for filing a frivolous suit and ordered to pay fees as a result. A claim that TLG violated the OGL would presumably have substantially less merit than TSR's BS lawsuit against New Infinities Productions, so the real case and this hypothetical one aren't identical.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

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Arduin
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Arduin »

Buttmonkey wrote:The American rule says each side ordinarily pays its own attorney fees. Other countries
Yes, I know. I've dealt with International IP issued for 20 years. HASBRO suing someone for using the SRD (correctly) would almost assuredly result in a dismissal with prejudice due to frivolity and therefore open up to recovery and counter-suit for various reasons. A large firm could carry the load. I can see a small atty firm not taking this on as you stated as they can't play that way due to "living hand to mouth".

Hence, my original replay as such. ;)
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serleran
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by serleran »

The wording of the OGL would cause some interesting debate but I believe is too "open" to interpretation to be enforced.

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concobar
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by concobar »

One thing I have learned with WotC acting a fool and what not is that it is pretty easy to write ones own game from the ground up if one wishes. I did and I am just a goofy EMT/FF (retired) so I am sure some of you educated lawyers types could do it as well if you wished.

Not to take anything away from anyone or so insinuate that C&C is not a great game because it is and along with LL,LL AEC is my go to game at the moment. I played a lot of 4e but that ship has sailed, do not think i will buy a hasbro RPG ever again.

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slimykuotoan
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by slimykuotoan »

Man, this thread is dear to my heart.
For crying out loud, do what you can with the attributes the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan

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Buttmonkey
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Buttmonkey »

slimykuotoan wrote:Man, this thread is dear to my heart.
Slimy, you are an evil, evil monster. You should only dredge this up on April Fool's Day.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

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Captain_K
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Captain_K »

So why is this reposted? Just to give us a post Xmas heart attack? As if the over doing it with food, drink and gaming was not enough...
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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slimykuotoan
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by slimykuotoan »

Lol. It's just fun to see a blast from the past.
For crying out loud, do what you can with the attributes the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan

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Jyrdan Fairblade
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Re: Sticky: C&C cancelled due to WOTC lawsuit.

Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

Hahahah, those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it...

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