And really, the confusion comes down to one thing: choosing an appropriate Challenge Level (CL) for checks that are not in opposition to another creature.
In the Determining CL section of the new Player's Handbook (PH), it states Easy tasks should be given a CL of 1-5, Difficult 6-10, Very Difficult 11-15. The one example that is given says pushing over a heavy statue is an Easy to Difficult task, so 4 is chosen? What? Oh, and there's negative CLs to juggle around too, again with no real guidance other than to pick a number that feels right.
It also doesn't help that the PH gives twelve examples in the Attribute Check section of the book and only ONE has an actual CL number given.
Take this one for instance:
"Cool. What's the CL? Don't want to go too high or it will be automatic failure for Non-Primes... How about 2?Original wrote:Climbing a large oak tree is easy for most reasonably fit people. A character climbing a tree in calm circumstances need not make a dexterity check. Climbing a tree while taking enemy fire from orcs is much more difficult. A character in this case might be required to make a dexterity check to avoid missteps or accidents due to the stress and added danger of the situation.
Which classes get to add Level? Rogue, Assassin, and Ranger for sure, but Barbarian sure seems like he should too... Maybe Monk as well? Maybe they don't even need to roll though? No, that can't be it, since they get to add their level that would be silly if they didn't get to use it. But this is the same roll needed to climb surfaces "others would find impossible", shouldn't this task be easier...?"
At the very least, I think the CLs need to be recategorized with better explanations. What is Easy for example? A CL 5 Dex check for a Level 1, 14 Dex Prime Rouge gives a 25% chance of success. That doesn't sound too Easy to me...
One way to think about it is would be:
A task that is Average Difficulty should have a CL equal to the median average level of the characters participating (ignoring outliers). That would give Prime's about a 45% chance of success and Non-Primes around a 15% chance.
From that idea I made this char to calculate CLs on the fly, again using average level as the baseline:
- Very Easy: Level - 6
- Easy: Level - 3
- Average: Level
- Difficult: Level + 3
- Very Difficult: Level + 6
- Heroic: Level + 9
Now, let's tackle some of those examples!
EXAMPLE 1:
Back to this. Let's say we have a party consisting of a Level 2 Rouge and Barbarian, a level 4 Fighter, and a level 3 Wizard. The average Level is 2 and we decide this is an Easy Task, so the CL is -1. Done!Original wrote:Climbing a large oak tree is easy for most reasonably fit people. A character climbing a tree in calm circumstances need not make a dexterity check. Climbing a tree while taking enemy fire from orcs is much more difficult. A character in this case might be required to make a dexterity check to avoid missteps or accidents due to the stress and added danger of the situation.
EXAMPLE 2:
1st Level Ranger and the task was decided to be "Very Easy", so the CL would be -5. Pretty close to the -4 given in the example with none of the guess work!Original wrote:Stark is a 1st level ranger with a 15 dexterity. All rangers have the scale class ability that allows them to climb any “climbable” surface without a dexterity check. Difficult surfaces require a dexterity check. Stark finds himself in a well, there are hand holds between the bricks, however the bricks are covered in slime. The Castle Keeper does not want Stark to have an automatic climb chance, however, he wants him to have a much greater chance of getting out of the well. The CK sets the Challenge Level at -4
EXAMPLE 3:
A Level 6 Fighter attempting a Difficult task would generate a CL of 9, again close to the example given and calculated in seconds.Original wrote:Logmar the Black, a 6th level fighter, is attempting to lift a fallen ship’s mast off his boon comrade while trying to avoid being swept overboard by a raging sea. The Castle Keeper rules that Logmar, with 16 strength (+2 modifier), would be able to lift the mast, but an attribute check is needed to determine if Logmar can succeed under the stress of the situation. The Castle Keeper has determined that the slipperiness of the deck and mast would equate to a challenge level of 8.
Anyways, just my opinion on things. Hope this gives newer players a more consistent way to generate CLs for their group.