Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

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mostrojoe
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Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by mostrojoe »

If the usual ability check must add the character level to the dice roll, why the CKG says that for the secondary skills this should be avoided?

"A secondary skill provides a character basic knowledge in that area. To this end they gain a +1 on any attribute check associated with the skill. They do not add in their level bonus."

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Captain_K
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by Captain_K »

I have a good long detailed list of all this, happy to email it to you, just PM me for my email address.

Prime gets you a +6, non-class abilities cannot be accomplished or should suck... class abilities go with class and thus with levels...
non-class abilities therefore do not go with levels. Your prime might help with non-class abilities but they are never as good as a class ability.

I did a nice bit of logical math on this and took the time to list all class and non-class abilities and damn near every skill and secondary skill and "profession" I could find.. might be a good Domesday bit... if we ever get another one of those going...
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

mostrojoe
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by mostrojoe »

Captain_K wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:32 am
I have a good long detailed list of all this, happy to email it to you, just PM me for my email address.
PM sent
Captain_K wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:32 am
Prime gets you a +6, non-class abilities cannot be accomplished or should suck... class abilities go with class and thus with levels...
non-class abilities therefore do not go with levels. Your prime might help with non-class abilities but they are never as good as a class ability.
We agree here. But checks usually include the character level. And not every secondary skill mimics a class ability.

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Grandpa
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by Grandpa »

mostrojoe wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:08 pm
If the usual ability check must add the character level to the dice roll, why the CKG says that for the secondary skills this should be avoided?
The rational was taken from AD&D. A secondary skill is background for the PC. Something they started learning before starting a full time pursuit as some class. E.g. Your father was a blacksmith and you were learning this trade until at 16 you ran away to apprentice with an Illusionist. Now you spend your time improving your skill in that Class and you are no longer apprenticing with a blacksmith. Being an illusionist doesn't improve your skill as a blacksmith. Just internal game logic.

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Captain_K
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by Captain_K »

Yep, good explanation. Your level is about your class not your background or little stuff. Beside you got to leave something for the NPC who are not class based to be better than "classes". Otherwise the best blacksmith in the world will be the highest level STR prime character, not a man who is a blacksmith.

f you want to add to a "flavor" skill out side your class abilities, spend more skill "slots" on it.

Think about a potter. His whole life he is a potter. He starts as an apprentice ( +1 to his roll), then Journeyman (+2 to his roll), then master (+3 to his roll), then senior master (+4 to his roll). Stat bonus likely apply and prime bonus might apply, but really skew the whole thing.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Grandpa
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by Grandpa »

A simple and equitable way to add a "level" to a secondary skill would be with an XP buy. 20% of the XP of your current level to the next. I will explain. The PC is a 3rd level Illusionist. IF you want to go from 1 skill point in Blacksmith to two points you pay 20% of what is needed to go from 3rd level Illusionist to 4th level. That would be: 1040 XP

One hits 3rd Illusionist at 5,201 XP and 4th at 10,401. The difference is 5,200 / 20% = 1,040 XP

This reflects the diversion of the PCs time from working on his class level advancement to improving a secondary skill.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

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Ancalagon
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Re: Why the secondary skills make checks without level?

Post by Ancalagon »

mostrojoe wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:08 pm
If the usual ability check must add the character level to the dice roll, why the CKG says that for the secondary skills this should be avoided?

"A secondary skill provides a character basic knowledge in that area. To this end they gain a +1 on any attribute check associated with the skill. They do not add in their level bonus."
Emphasis mine.
There you have it. 8-)
Imaginatio est Vita
Grand Knight Commander

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