Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

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TheMetal1
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Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

Post by TheMetal1 »

Steve posted over on Facebook the following:
I'm going to put this here (and in discord) to test the waters. The unarmed combat rules in the PHB are too complicated. The unarmed rules in the ABP are not complicated. I'm considering dumping the original and replacing with the new, easier, more streamlined. Thoughts?
I went ahead and looked at the rules from both and did a brief comparison.

Both are about a page in length (page 174 in PHB, 6th printing and page 73 in ABP, 1st printing).
The PHB gives an example, ABS does not.
The ABS has 3 Critical Hit Tables for each type of unarmed combat
The PHB states the damage is Subdual, the ABS implies the damage is normal.

ABS Unarmed Combat

Pummeling: d20+BTH+STR MOD+(other appropriate)
IF SUCCESSFUL target is injured. Damage is 1+STR MOD+ (Other appropriate)

Overbearing: d20+BTH+STR MOD+(other appropriate)
IF SUCCESSFUL target is "Prone"

Grappling: d20+BTH+STR MOD+(other appropriate).
IF SUCCESSFUL target is "Pinned"

PHB Unarmed Combat

Pummeling: d20+BTH+STR MOD+(other appropriate)
IF SUCCESSFUL target is injured. Damage is 1d2+STR MOD of Subdual Damage.

Overbearing: d20+STR MOD+(other appropriate) vs. Target's AC
Target AC vs. Overbearing: IF Target has STR PRIME, THEN AC18. IF Target is not STR PRIME, THEN AC18. Target AC is modified by Target STR MOD+DEX MOD+SIZE (Larger: +2/Smaller -2)+(other appropriate)+BTH
IF SUCCESSFUL target is "Prone" and Injured. Damage is 1d2 of Subdual Damage.
NOTE: CK may or may not add BTH modifier of attacker.

Grappling: d20+BTH+STR MOD vs. Target's AC
Target AC vs. Grappling: IF Target has STR PRIME, THEN AC18. IF Target is not STR PRIME, THEN AC18. Target AC is modified by Target STR MOD+DEX MOD+SIZE (Larger: +2/Smaller -2)+(other appropriate)
IF SUCCESSFUL target is "held"

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From my perspective, I guess I'm a traditionalist. I like the PHB rules and vote to keep them. Unarmed Attacks don't occur that often, and I like how it ties in the Primes and size categories. Plus, IIRC, all the Castle Keeper Screens have the PHB unarmed attacks on them. It's laid out pretty well. Just keep in mind that will have to change as well as it's an "Official Rules" change like the Barbarian or healing for Illusionists.

The Subdual Damage gives it more of Barfight kind of feel. I use subdual damage on occasion though, not sure who else does. That being said, unarmed combat can kill, so in that area, I think the ABS gets it right - i.e. regular damage

I acknowledge that the ABP is 'Simple" - its an attack, and if successful it's damage, prone or pin. At the end of the day, while the Trolls will need to decide. If they change to the ABP, then drop the critical tables as that actually complicates it. Sure, the critical tables are there to add flavor, which is nice but not something to add to the PHB, keep it in the ABP or, perhaps better suited in the CKG. Second, I don't recall the Critical hit tables being in the PHB and didn't find it in the 6th printing copy I have out at them moment. So adding in these tables may add confusion. Lastly, by not adding in the Critical Hit tables, you gain about a 1/2 page using your double column style.

Anyway, 'nuff said on my end. If I missed anything let me know.
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Grandpa
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Re: Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

Post by Grandpa »

"ABP" ???

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TheMetal1
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Re: Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

Post by TheMetal1 »

Apologies! ABP = Adventurer's Backpack. Additional Abbreviations reference: PHB - Player's Handbook; CKG - Castle Keeper's Guide.
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Re: Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

Post by Captain_K »

Anyone remember the Samurai from the Dragon or the "New Monk" from the Dragon....

Fist is already in the weapon table of the PHB...

slow way to go...

KISS should rule.
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Re: Unarmed Combat - PHB or ABP?

Post by Grandpa »

TheMetal1 wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:15 pm
Apologies! ABP = Adventurer's Backpack. Additional Abbreviations reference: PHB - Player's Handbook; CKG - Castle Keeper's Guide.
My thoughts are; I don't think most CKs use the unarmed combat rules in the PHB as written. At least the dozen or so I've spoken with over the years. I am not familiar with the new rules in the ABP though. But if they work and are simpler I'm voting yes.

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