Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

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mostrojoe
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Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by mostrojoe »

Do you a have a standard system to convert CLs of 3rd edition adventure modules in C&C?
I mean, if you read that to pick a lock or to climb a wall is a CL 15 skill check (for an example), what can be the difficulty rating of a C&C check?

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Captain_K
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by Captain_K »

I would make a fast chart for 1, 5th, and say 10th lvl PCs and set the level of difficulty of these things into math so it seems about the same then from those three comparison points you should be good. But recall in CnC saves never get easier as the opponents level counts against you.
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mostrojoe
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by mostrojoe »

A prime attribute character should roll an 11 to make a CL 15 check I think.

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Buttmonkey
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by Buttmonkey »

mostrojoe wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:25 pm
A prime attribute character should roll an 11 to make a CL 15 check I think.
That would mean a CL 15 check in 3E would have a challenge level of 0 in C&C. I've never played 3E, so I don't know if that makes sense.
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jahydin
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by jahydin »

Buttmonkey wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:16 pm
That would mean a CL 15 check in 3E would have a challenge level of 0 in C&C. I've never played 3E, so I don't know if that makes sense.
Makes sense to me.

A DC 15 check in 3.X is considered "tough", so for me that's equal to a CL of 0. That gives a level 1 Rogue, 14 Prime Dex, about a 55% chance to succeed (Roll Needed: 15 (Base Target Number) - 3 (Prime) - 1 (Level) - 1 (attribute bonus). Seems fair.

So maybe just take the DC and subtract 15 to get CL? So a DC 20 check would be a CL of 5. Should work okay.

mostrojoe
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by mostrojoe »

Yes, it is good to consider that in 3rd edition, a 1st level Rogue has usually 2-5 ranks in the Search skill. Let's consider a +1 bonus to the Int, this gives the Rogue a bonus that goes from +3 to +6 for his skill check. That means that a tough CL 15 check will succeed rolling a 9-12 range number.
Even better with the Climb skill, that using Dex is usually easier (Rogues have at least a +2 Dex bonus from the beginning).
That means that in C&C when you are trying to roll at least an 11 you are trying what in D&D 3rd edition is a tough check. In D&D 3rd edition a normal task has a Challenge Level of 10, so our Rogue needs usually a 5 to succeed. I don't know if in C&C a Challenge Level of 0 is meant to be a tough check or a normal check. But I think that a somewhat tough check in C&C is in a CL that has a +1/+5 range. That means that, for what I get, in C&C life is a little harder than in D&D!

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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by jahydin »

It is a bit confusing, which is one of the reason I came up with my Simple SEIGE rules that ditch CLs altogether.

From what I gathered though, in C&C, a CL equal to the character level is considered "normal/average" difficulty, but "really tough" for those that are Non-Prime. Note that using a CL past PC level and you quickly get to the point of impossible rolls for Non-Primes.

To further complicate it though, the skills that should be "easy to average" difficulty for that PC, such as Climb, Hide, and Listen, have descriptions that describe success as extraordinary. For those skills, if extraordinary success isn't required, I can see either setting the CL to a negative number or just letting that PC auto-succeed.

Going back to impossible rolls for Non-Primes, that is also the reason I use the Tertiary Option in the CKG. It lets humans take 3 Prime (+3), 2 Secondary (+0), and one Non-Prime (-3). Demi-humans trade one Prime for another Non-Prime as usual. I think the range of rolls needed (12, 15, 18) makes checks more interesting as more characters have a better chance of making them.

mostrojoe
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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by mostrojoe »

Perhaps using the tertiary option is a good idea for many reasons.
What you say about the non-prime characters is anyway true, so it is a good idea to use a CKG option that says that a natural 20 gives a instant +5 bonus for the check. It is still very difficult for low-level non-prime characters to succeed, but it seems this is the intent of the game design.

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Re: Converting 3rd Ed. CLs in C&C

Post by Grandpa »

jahydin wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:49 am
From what I gathered though, in C&C, a CL equal to the character level is considered "normal/average" difficulty, but "really tough" for those that are Non-Prime. Note that using a CL past PC level and you quickly get to the point of impossible rolls for Non-Primes.
Correctly noted. That is how they were intended to be.

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