Genius of the Siege Engine

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Persimmon
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Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Persimmon »

Been going back and tweaking some house rules for various systems lately and once again I'm impressed by the simple flexibility of the Siege Engine and C&C's mechanics in general. It's just so easy to port in stuff from both earlier and later editions of D&D and its various retroclones. So I've got fewer actual houserules for C&C than for any other game and most of them revolve around character creation and character class options.

Although I do wish they had just given static XP values for monsters rather than using the old 1e method with the HP. I'm too OCD to ignore that so when I write my own stuff or calculate XP at the end of a published adventure, I'm scrambling for my calculator. :lol:
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Fizz »

'Tis true. I can't think of another system that permits such easy conversion from both earlier and later editions of D&D.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Captain_K »

simplify the experience, just hand a flat value at the end of each game, calculate nothing....
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Persimmon »

Captain_K wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:19 am
simplify the experience, just hand a flat value at the end of each game, calculate nothing....
Nope; can't do it. Love the calculation of XP and the suspense of wondering if people leveled up.
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Lurker »

I am there with you on both points.

Been doing a conversion of the ole Keep on the Borderland module, and yes I love how flexible Siege is.

Also, in the conversion, I have bumped up against the exp value, and yes i have to do the conversion like you - though it isn't my OCD enjoyment of running numbers.

One problem is that I am making it a Tolkien esk world, with a much lower reliance on gold and treasure. Soooooo few of the monsters have treasure or the have treasure that is less than the standard hoard on average games.

CK, I do do it your way to a point, I do give flat exp for 'finishing events' etc so that is a good tool, and it does make up for the above issue I am having with limited exp from treasure
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Persimmon
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Persimmon »

Lurker wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:06 am
I am there with you on both points.

Been doing a conversion of the ole Keep on the Borderland module, and yes I love how flexible Siege is.

Also, in the conversion, I have bumped up against the exp value, and yes i have to do the conversion like you - though it isn't my OCD enjoyment of running numbers.

One problem is that I am making it a Tolkien esk world, with a much lower reliance on gold and treasure. Soooooo few of the monsters have treasure or the have treasure that is less than the standard hoard on average games.

CK, I do do it your way to a point, I do give flat exp for 'finishing events' etc so that is a good tool, and it does make up for the above issue I am having with limited exp from treasure
Do you have the old MERP rules? They gave XP for travel, in addition to killing monsters. It was based on a combination of distance traveled and the danger of the lands you traveled through. They included a map that showed how the danger factor came into play. You could pretty seamlessly port this over to C&C.

You also got XP for delivering and sustaining critical hits, which I still incorporate into my game, though in a much more simplified form than what they did in MERP.
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

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To me I give out experience after each game.. with a goal of leveling up every major story arc (module) or roughly after 4 or 5 games. We only play once a month, so progression is slow. its fixed points per nigh. Then the PCs keep track of those points and level up per the PH. But I do not care if they roll play tons one night or fight beginning to end another... also ends to "we only level up if we kill things and steal their treasure"... how do we expect a world to exist based on murder and theft... yeah, that's one sided but you get my drift. I let each person be themselves and part of the team as they can and the experience is shared out evenly. plus as the CK, I just keep them on track with the story arc.
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Persimmon »

I get having alternate XP generation and I do that as well, giving XP for good roleplaying and achieving certain story goals. But I also use the traditional methods as I like the quirks of monster and treasure XP. And I also like the fact that C&C preserved the uneven advancement of character classes. That usually means that by the mid levels, not everyone levels up each session, but often at least one PC does since they're progressing at different rates, keeping it interesting.
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

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Persimmon wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:01 pm
And I also like the fact that C&C preserved the uneven advancement of character classes.
Yes, if a GM didn't understand AD&D and why the uneven progression tables they will create PCs of wildly uneven power. This was one of the MAJOR flaws in 3x.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

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Grandpa wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:42 pm
Persimmon wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:01 pm
And I also like the fact that C&C preserved the uneven advancement of character classes.
Yes, if a GM didn't understand AD&D and why the uneven progression tables they will create PCs of wildly uneven power. This was one of the MAJOR flaws in 3x.
Rgr on that
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

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Persimmon wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:33 pm
So I've got fewer actual houserules for C&C than for any other game and most of them revolve around character creation and character class options.
This is true for me as well. I was spending a ridiculous amount of time trying to get 5E into exactly the game I wanted. Was a relief to find C&C and realize the work was already done for me!

Best parts for me:
  • Attribute rolls are fun, but not too important thanks to Primes.
  • Humancentric thanks to the extra Prime, but not too punishing for those who really want to play a demihuman.
  • AD&D's combat math kept intact.
  • Classes are EXACTLY how I want them to be.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Persimmon »

I agree wholeheartedly. I hadn't realized how easy it all fit together until after I quit playing C&C for a couple years. When I started messing around with other systems, particularly DCC, I gained a better appreciation for the unified mechanics in C&C and the fact that you don't have to constantly be looking stuff up in tables. And I'm also a pretty big fan of the character classes, especially from the PHB. The AB ones I'm a bit more mixed on (will do another post on that), but I was glad that they added spell-casting options for bards, rangers, and paladins, even if we don't always use them.
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Bifford
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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Bifford »

I give an XP amount for turning up and playing. If someone roleplays very well I'll give them a little bonus. Plus they get the XP from gold/treasures/monsters.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

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Bifford wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:50 pm
I give an XP amoutn for turning up and playing. If someone roleplays very well I'll give them a little bonus. Plus they get the XP from gold/treasures/monsters.
Not a bad way to do it at all.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by serleran »

You could just use the "average XP per monster" document(s) and adjust if above, or below. That removes most of the annoying calculation as it leaves only the" +X per HP."

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by Kayolan »

serleran wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:39 pm
You could just use the "average XP per monster" document(s) and adjust if above, or below. That removes most of the annoying calculation as it leaves only the" +X per HP."
Interesting, this would be a good addition to Monsters & Treasure for each of the monsters listed.

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by mostrojoe »

Lurker wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:06 am

Been doing a conversion of the ole Keep on the Borderland module, and yes I love how flexible Siege is.
I am about to play that very adventure module, being Mystara che campaign setting.
How do you convert? I don t do it, I simply use the module as it is just using C&C rules. If I read monster stats I do not consider the BECMI armor class and just that. You make a deeper conversion?

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Re: Genius of the Siege Engine

Post by mostrojoe »

In the CKG there is a suggestion to give a +5 to characters that roll a natural 20.

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