What else have we let fall away?

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Captain_K
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What else have we let fall away?

Post by Captain_K »

We have talked about mapping, worlds, character group meets/starts... what other general topics do we have out there that might be gone or not.

1) How to roll starting scores, 4d6 pick 3? We just did you get one PC shot, no death at birth 5d6 pick 3 and my PC of two got a 6 and a 9.. so makes for a cool character.
2) First level hp? Max? just roll? All other level HD? 50% or better?
3) Languages? What the heck is common? We use the world map, so 1 AD to 1000 AD languages are all in play.. common is that region. My other DM uses Airdhe and their languages, which have that "common".
4) Do plate mailed knights get their DEX bonus too? Is their move slowed?
5) How many starting languages do PCs get? Why do dwarves get 9 and the 'adaptable"' humans get 2? Even an orc speaks more..
6) How often do the patron gods or pantheons get involved? For the Clerics?
7) Character names, silly? serious? impossible to pronounce?


Please copy and add your topics, lets get a good list going...
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Hakdov »

1) 4d6, drop lowest. I think OSR games that aren't emulating OD&D do themselves a disservice by continuing to push 3d6 in order as the way to roll up characters. It really only works for OD&D where you barely have any modifiers for your stats. Outside of that, you are going to end up with some lame pc's and unhappy players. Even Gygax didn't play with the 3d6 method. Go look at the stats for the pc's in the old AD&D Rogue's Gallery book.

2) Max hp at 1st level. After that you reroll all your hit dice each time you level up and take that if it is higher than you had before. This way you front load hit points but over time your hit points will average out to what it would be just like if you rolled every level.

3) In ancient times, Latin was the common. Later, it was French. Today, it would be English. Basically the language of the dominant culture and the language of trade and/or religion.

4) I like the old rules where your speed is set by what armor you wear. Easy to use without tracking encumbrance.

5) That's weirdness from AD&D. I prefer limiting it to race/national language + common + your Int modifier (but never less than 1) of other languages. Or if skills are used, they they are treated as individual skills to learn.

6) Very rare.

7) Characters with silly names are always the ones who get randomly attacked or fall in traps. Funny how that happens. :)

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Persimmon »

I'll give my take on a few of these and add one.

1. We generally go 4d6, drop the lowest & arrange in any order. But recently for OSE I had players go 4d6 drop the lowest in order, which was interesting as it impacted character class decisions. And we rolled up 12 PCs and there was only 1 ability score of 18 (but none below 7) with this method.

2. For HP at 1st level, we always add a "kicker" a la 4th edition Hackmaster. It used to be 20 HP for all PCs after your regular roll, so everyone has a minimum of 21 HP at 1st level. By the mid levels, with the exception of mages, it tends to even out. What we've done more recently is have an additional roll with CON bonus if applicable. Use d16 for martial classes and d14 for the rest. Could still end up with pretty low rolls but it's something. We use crits and fumbles so this helps mitigate that a bit. And I just want an excuse to use those extra dice.

3. We have broadly regional common human tongues that are essentially trade languages. But they will be different in geographically distant places. So if you're from the Celestial Empire of Leng (based on China), then your common won't work in the Jarldoms, but people from neighboring Parhae (based on Korea) could understand enough to get by.

5. I have no problem with demi-humans getting more languages. I think they have better education, more stable family structures, and longer lives in general than humans. And they are inherently magical in a way that humans aren't. And seeing my college students these days, it's true that most humans can't master even one language they were theoretically born into:)

6. I try to get pantheons and deities fairly involved, but I have an affinity for writing events with apocalyptic implications. Certainly the clerics are encouraged to play this up. The others? Depends on the player. I do have them all choose patron deities.

7. Spend a fair amount of time on character names and often drawn from literature or history. So we seldom have really silly ones unless they fit a character's personality. My ex-wife had a pixie illusionist named Penelope Whimsicality Stardust, for example.

Now here's another:
How about alignment languages or even alignment in general? How much does it really matter in your games?
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Hakdov »

I see alignment as just a simple indicator of personality and motivation. Not something absolute. And alignment languages just seem weird to me. Never used them.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
How to roll starting scores, 4d6 pick 3?
4D6 drop lowest, arrange as desired or 74 points to arrange as desired, max score 18.
First level hp? Max? just roll? All other level HD? 50% or better?
Start with max HP & gold. All subsequent levels roll HP
Do plate mailed knights get their DEX bonus too? Is their move slowed?
Keep Dex bonus. 1 step or 10 less movement except Dwarves
How often do the patron gods or pantheons get involved? For the Clerics?
PCs HOPE Gods don't get involved. Clerics are just relieved to know that their deity is happy because they still have their powers.
Character names, silly? serious? impossible to pronounce?
Up to the player. BUT, names CAN have in game consequences...

PCs weight & height rolled or picked? From which chart? PHB or CKG?

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Ancalagon »

Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
We have talked about mapping, worlds, character group meets/starts... what other general topics do we have out there that might be gone or not.

1) How to roll starting scores, 4d6 pick 3? We just did you get one PC shot, no death at birth 5d6 pick 3 and my PC of two got a 6 and a 9.. so makes for a cool character.
Depends on the campaign I intend to run: either 3d6 assign as desired or 4d6 drop the lowest then assign as desired. I never use point buy.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
2) First level hp? Max? just roll? All other level HD? 50% or better?
If going more or less by the book, max HPs at 1st level. If I'm using my house rules then it is different.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
3) Languages? What the heck is common? We use the world map, so 1 AD to 1000 AD languages are all in play.. common is that region. My other DM uses Airdhe and their languages, which have that "common".
In Aihrde it is "common" or vulgate. In my homebrew setting the closest thing would be Latin.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
4) Do plate mailed knights get their DEX bonus too? Is their move slowed?
In a more or less by the book game, I play it as written. In my homebrew setting there is no plate armor but other armors will slow the wearer's move rate.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
5) How many starting languages do PCs get? Why do dwarves get 9 and the 'adaptable"' humans get 2? Even an orc speaks more..
In a more or less by the book game, I play it as written. In my homebrew setting there are no demi-human PCs.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
6) How often do the patron gods or pantheons get involved? For the Clerics?
In standard Aihrde campaigns, rarely, if ever. In my homebrew setting, never.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
7) Character names, silly? serious? impossible to pronounce?
Serious. Always. Someone who shows up to my table with a name like Sir LongDuckDong of House Twinkletoes either didn't get the message or is purposefully trying to piss me off.
Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:28 pm
Please copy and add your topics, lets get a good list going...
There you are! :)
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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1). I lean toward heroic games, but not to the level of they are super heroes in medieval time, so I like the chance for them to have some high stats. So, I do the roll 4, reroll any 1, keep highest 3. Place as you want. I also add stats like Luck/Weal (love that stat form Hero’s Journey) some time Comeliness (there is a difference between looks and CHA, Hitler was at best average looking, but good lord look what evil he was able to sow with such a high CHA)
However, if the game gods are not happy and all your rolls are iffy even with the 4 & drop a die, and reroll 1s …. Run with it. Usually there is still a stat or 2 that are at least a little above average. But at times it can be good to play a not so bright character etc.

2) 1 st level – max HP, all other levels, roll, reroll any 1s, take what you get (again if the dice gods are not happy, roll after roll and you have some low HPs, I may drop you a benefit that give you a bump to your HP total, but that is a rarity

3) I love historic settings, so yeah, language comes into play. However, there is some bleed over – Anglo Saxon is kin to Norse, and that is kin to Germanic, so anyone with any of those languages will be able to communicate to a point with each other. Same with French Spanish, Italian, same with Slavic etc etc etc. I do allow a trader type language where they can communicate (very limitedly) with other language groups.

4). YES Armor made and fitted for the character is significantly less restrictive than people think. From personally experience, if you are fit and wear the armor correctly, and are used to wearing it, it gets to the point you don’t notice it. However, anyone wearing a back pack in combat is at a disadvantage. Unless you are the radio man or the medic, the first thing you do is drop your ruck in a fight.
That said, in my settings there are no full plate type armors. Mail, reinforce mail etc are the best there is. But no full Milanese 15 th 16 th century suits of armor.

5) I limit it, but I do not have a hard fast rule for it. INT does com into play, as does culture and background narrative. … dwarves 9 languages … I must have missed that all these years.

6) they are behind the scenes moving things etc, but I have NEVER had a god/deity/power appear in full glory and participate. Now, they may be there disguised and nudging things (Greek myths for Athena and Hermes appearing to heroes and giving advice or a little help are a good example)

7) up to the player, but … names have meaning and power and influence. If you want to be a jack wagon and have a stupid BS name be ready for EVERYONE to treat you like you are a jack wagon. The flip side, if you take the time to look at the general language being used for the society, or look at historic names, or look up naming norms and modify real historic/mythic name following the naming cycle, you will get benefits. At the least it will give good hooks through the game for your character (Leignar, Bjornsun … Boy, did I know your grand sire Fraynar? If so I pulled oars with your uncle and drank a night with your father at the Jarl’s hall, here let me buy you a meal, you look down on your luck, Here sup with a new friend from long ago tonight. Maybe the fates will smile on both of us if we talk of old glory of your ancestors)
Serious. Always. Someone who shows up to my table with a name like Sir LongDuckDong of House Twinkletoes either didn't get the message or is purposefully trying to piss me off.
Ancalagon, Good way to put it ! I don't think I have ever had anyone go down that path that far, but yeah, I am there with you on that
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Persimmon »

Lurker wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 3:49 pm

7) up to the player, but … names have meaning and power and influence. If you want to be a jack wagon and have a stupid BS name be ready for EVERYONE to treat you like you are a jack wagon. The flip side, if you take the time to look at the general language being used for the society, or look at historic names, or look up naming norms and modify real historic/mythic name following the naming cycle, you will get benefits. At the least it will give good hooks through the game for your character (Leignar, Bjornsun … Boy, did I know your grand sire Fraynar? If so I pulled oars with your uncle and drank a night with your father at the Jarl’s hall, here let me buy you a meal, you look down on your luck, Here sup with a new friend from long ago tonight. Maybe the fates will smile on both of us if we talk of old glory of your ancestors)
Serious. Always. Someone who shows up to my table with a name like Sir LongDuckDong of House Twinkletoes either didn't get the message or is purposefully trying to piss me off.
Ancalagon, Good way to put it ! I don't think I have ever had anyone go down that path that far, but yeah, I am there with you on that
We did have a paladin named Lance Goodthrust back in the day, but that name was stolen from an episode of "Night Court" where it was the name Dan (John Larroquette) used to pick up women.
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by jahydin »

1) 4d6 pick 3, straight down! Since I use 3 Primes, 2 Secondary's, 1 Non-Prime, actual ability scores aren't nearly as important as other games. I'm not picky about rerolling if the player really doesn't like the outcome though.
2) At first Lv they roll their HD/2 + average (i.e., Fighter would roll d5 + 5). At level-up, I let them roll all the HD and compare to their current total. If higher, they take the new total. If lower, they just add one (plus Con Mod of course). I like how this averages out HP somewhat over the course of the game but still allows some luck.
3) For me, Common is just the language that's spoken by most to convey simple thoughts or to barter. Anymore that that would require proficiency in another language.
4) Yes. If they managed to roll a high enough Dex, good for them! And no, I don't penalize their movement either; that's what encumbrance is for!
5) You get Common. If Int is at least 9, you also get the languages spoken normally during your upbringing. You also would get a number of bonus languages equal to your Int Mod which you can take from the list in your class description.
6) Has actually never came up for me yet...
7) All characters are just referred to by their class until 3rd level, at which point I don't mind what they want their name to be; they earned it!

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Hakdov »

jahydin wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:32 am
7) All characters are just referred to by their class until 3rd level, at which point I don't mind what they want their name to be; they earned it!
How very Goblin Slayer of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i2qquegdB4&t=537s

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by mgtremaine »

ha ha .. that was actually pretty funny.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Persimmon »

I also liked the old level titles. Cooler to say "I'm Akazzikus the Conjuror," rather than "I'm Akazzikus the 2nd level magic-user." And, as someone else observed, that's when wizard was a title one earned, rather than just your class. Not sure why they didn't just use mage or magician.
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Hakdov »

mgtremaine wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:00 pm
ha ha .. that was actually pretty funny.

-Mike
Goblin Slayer Abridged is hilarious.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by jahydin »

Hakdov wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:42 pm
How very Goblin Slayer of you.
You have no idea how happy that made me watching that anime, :lol: ! I was going to mention it too, but figured no one would know what I was talking about. Glad to see it's more popular than I thought!

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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jahydin wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:30 am
You have no idea how happy that made me watching that anime, :lol: ! I was going to mention it too, but figured no one would know what I was talking about. Glad to see it's more popular than I thought!
It really is the best D&D cartoon ever made. It's very old school in how the characters approach dungeons and killing monsters. Too many people dismiss it due to the squicky bits or just because they hate everything that is anime. I wish we could get a translated version of the rpg.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by jahydin »

Hakdov wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:02 pm
It really is the best D&D cartoon ever made. It's very old school in how the characters approach dungeons and killing monsters. Too many people dismiss it due to the squicky bits or just because they hate everything that is anime. I wish we could get a translated version of the rpg.
Oh wow, that looks cool!

For my next C&C game, I really want to incorporate the Guild idea of breaking quests into difficulty ranks. Looks like there's 10 ranks, so Porcelain would be levels 1-2, Obsidian 3-4, and so on until Platinum 19-20. Jam up 5 or so dungeons 3 ranks around the parties level and let them select which one to tackle. Seeing that reward money for the higher ranked quests might be the nudge needed for them to try something more dangerous. Hmmmmm...

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Hakdov »

jahydin wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:13 am
For my next C&C game, I really want to incorporate the Guild idea of breaking quests into difficulty ranks. Looks like there's 10 ranks, so Porcelain would be levels 1-2, Obsidian 3-4, and so on until Platinum 19-20. Jam up 5 or so dungeons 3 ranks around the parties level and let them select which one to tackle. Seeing that reward money for the higher ranked quests might be the nudge needed for them to try something more dangerous. Hmmmmm...
I just take it as their adventure rank = D&D level so it would be D&D with level capped at 10 which is perfectly fine with me. Goblin Slayer is a silver rank which would be something like 8th level. That seems about right for what he fights. If he was 16th level, goblins would be nothing to him.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Captain_K »

I was really trying to start a growing list of these types of topics, not get feedback on my initial list, they were suggested topics we have or could talk about....

love the replies, looking forward to reading all of them, but I'm looking for more similar topics...
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Grandpa »

Captain_K wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 3:42 pm
I was really trying to start a growing list of these types of topics,
PCs weight & height rolled or picked? From which chart? PHB or CKG?

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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Thanks, now its my turn..

I let them pick their own height and weight from within the range.

In our first game with a new group the 6'9" human asked "I want to play a gnome, how short can I be?" still playing that little guy in a red hat to this day...
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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OK, just watched the first episode, viscous shit that is....
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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Captain_K wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 1:37 am
OK, just watched the first episode, viscous shit that is....
lol, the first episode is rather jarring for people who haven't read the novels or manga :lol:

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

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You have a campy set up for "first levels", then you inset real life monsters
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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by jahydin »

1) I guess I always wondered how everyone handled resource management? Arrows, rations, and torches mostly.

For me:
Arrows: once per combat, if you roll 1-4 you mark off 5 arrows.
Rations and torches: I have to admit I haven't been keeping track of anymore. I do like they system in Forbidden Lands where you have a die represent how plentiful they are. When asked to make a check, if you roll a 1 you move down one die step till you run out. Might steel that...

2) If you design your campaigns one dungeon at a time, or open world with lots of dungeons of various levels?

I would like to do the latter, but it's a lot of work!

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Re: What else have we let fall away?

Post by Persimmon »

For arrows, I do try to keepo track somewhat. Magic arrows are one time use. For others, it's common sense if they break and/or if indicated by a fumble. For rations, we track somewhat as well. I usually just deduct a maintenance fee between adventures that scales up and reflects refurbishing basic supplies. Now, with the custom packs in ABP you can just use their costs as that fee. In one campaign the party all rented rooms in a swanky part of town so they had monthly expenses for that too.

I have an open world with lots of dungeons scattered around, including many of the published mega-dungeons. Not quite a sandbox as there's usually some kind of campaign arc, but there are often options and we made change in the middle of a campaign depending upon what the players do, who dies, etc. So I'm usually working on at least two different dungeons or campaigns, sometimes using different game systems. For example, right now I'm doing some expansion of the Aufstrag Dungeons for high level play down the road, as that party is only in A6. I'm also designing lairs and encounter areas for an Underdark sandbox using Old School Essentials. And I just started sketching out ideas for another high level megadungeon based on those great underground Elven cities from Middle Earth.
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