General cost of living?

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mostrojoe
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General cost of living?

Post by mostrojoe »

It's just me perhaps, but I cannot find in the CKG some hints about the cost of living.
Being, for an exemple, a poor person or someone that conducts a decent living would have certain costs I suppose.
Is there some indication about that and I am missing it?

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

Okay, I have historic data: A C&C coin is ~1 ounce. A £= 16 s.p. A Shilling in this price list is ~0.8 C&C SP. There are 12 pence in Shilling. Pence abbreviated with "d"

Laborer £2/year max (32 s.p./year)
man-at-arms or squire 1s/day +food & a place to sleep
Master mason 4d/day
Kitchen servants 2s-4s/year +food & a place to sleep
Thatcher 2.5 d a day
Rent cottage 5s/year
Craftsman's house (i.e., with shop, work area, and room for workers) with 2-3 bays and tile roof 300 Shillings/year
2 Chickens 1d
2 Dozen Eggs 1d
80 lb cheese 3s 4d
Pig 2s
Dried Fruit (eg raisins, dates), 1-4 d/lb
Ale good 1.5 d /gallon
Salted herring (wholesale) 5-10/1d
Cheap sword (peasant's) 6d

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Lurker
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Lurker »

Good break down.
I have something similar to that somewhere, but no telling where I rat holed it …

Another thing I've done is looked at ancient Greece and Rome - yes there is a huge span of time there and huge changes of costs value of coins inflation etc. Also Diocletian policy of fixing prices wages etc, and messing with the value of the coins mess things up further.

That all said, in a very general large brush way, it can be looked at that the wage of 1 silver piece a day was enough to cover the cost of living for a poor worker. Of course this is on the very low end of the economic spectrum, but it covered the cost of rent (of a cheap room) food (free bread for Romans helped, but also mince meat, cheap grain, and cheap wine etc) a set or 2 of cloths (cheap workman cloths) and taxes (significantly less than the % wee pay - something like 1 weak of work was enough to pay the yearly taxes of the average worker, but I'm not 100% sure where I read that, so take it with a grain of salt) and a little left over to cover holidays etc.

Similarly, I read somewhere that in Ancient Greece - Athens to be exact, the wage per day for a juror was 1 to 2 silver a day of setting in trial, and it was enough to cover the persons needs.

Of course, those were the low end, and skilled labor, artisans, etc could earn significantly more ( and buy better food, rent or buy a better house etc).
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mostrojoe
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by mostrojoe »

Thanks a lot. I suppose then that spending 1 or 2 silver coins per day could suggest a poor-medium living style. While a poor or miserable citizen could spend something like 1-5 copper coins. Perhaps a person that earns from 0,5 to 1 gold coin per month can be said an average citizen.

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

Lurker wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:20 pm
Good break down.
I have something similar to that somewhere, but no telling where I rat holed it …
Thanks, I culled a few items. I wish one could upload docs here. There is about 3-4 pages of this. Probably same doc you have.
Lurker wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:20 pm
That all said, in a very general large brush way, it can be looked at that the wage of 1 silver piece a day was enough to cover the cost of living for a poor worker. Of course this is on the very low end of the economic spectrum, but it covered the cost of rent (of a cheap room) food (free bread for
That matches this 13th century data I posted. A man at arms was paid about 1 s.p./day.

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Captain_K
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Captain_K »

You will spend what you make.... or said another way, "what the DM giveth, the DM taketh away." Or in this text, things will eat up their income always...
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

anvil242
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by anvil242 »

I generally treat a copper as $1 to the average citizen, but otherwise don't get too worked up about it.

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

mostrojoe wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:03 pm
Thanks a lot. I suppose then that spending 1 or 2 silver coins per day could suggest a poor-medium living style. While a poor or miserable citizen could spend something like 1-5 copper coins. Perhaps a person that earns from 0,5 to 1 gold coin per month can be said an average citizen.
A ditch digger (poor person, unskilled laborer) makes about 1 c.p./day
A Squire 1s.p./day plus room and board. Above avg citizen.

Yes, I think around 1 G.P. would be an avg income freeman that was what we call middle class.. Like the master mason who made about 1.1 GP a month.

mostrojoe
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by mostrojoe »

Thanks everyone!
Just to be complete I am reporting here what is said in Pathfinder (that has a slightly different economics than C&C).

Poor 3gp/month
Average 10gp/month
Wealthy 100gp/month
Extravagant 1000gp/month

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

mostrojoe wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:00 am
Thanks everyone!
Just to be complete I am reporting here what is said in Pathfinder (that has a slightly different economics than C&C).
I've never seen a write up for C&C.

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Rigon
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Rigon »

I thought there was one in the CKG, but I would have to check to make sure.

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

Rigon wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:21 pm
I thought there was one in the CKG, but I would have to check to make sure.

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I've only seen cost for PCs for "hotel" room and meals. That kind of thing. Not for average cost of living for residents low and middle class.

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Rigon
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Rigon »

Grandpa wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:16 pm
Rigon wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:21 pm
I thought there was one in the CKG, but I would have to check to make sure.

R-
I've only seen cost for PCs for "hotel" room and meals. That kind of thing. Not for average cost of living for residents low and middle class.
Maybe that's what I was thinking.

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Grandpa
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Grandpa »

Rigon wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:21 am
Grandpa wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:16 pm
Rigon wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:21 pm
I thought there was one in the CKG, but I would have to check to make sure.

R-
I've only seen cost for PCs for "hotel" room and meals. That kind of thing. Not for average cost of living for residents low and middle class.
Maybe that's what I was thinking.
I looked again and found a table showing class disposable income AFTER cost of living expenses but didn't give amounts for cost of living. The chart was wonky and not all terms defined. The amounts for disposable income were also in the stratosphere compared to listed hireling costs and any medieval concept of wealth

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Rigon
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by Rigon »

Grandpa wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:29 pm
I looked again and found a table showing class disposable income AFTER cost of living expenses but didn't give amounts for cost of living. The chart was wonky and not all terms defined. The amounts for disposable income were also in the stratosphere compared to listed hireling costs and any medieval concept of wealth
Yeah, I usually don't use the CKG and it's been a hot minute since I looked in it. But wonky is definitely up the Troll's alley.

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mostrojoe
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Re: General cost of living?

Post by mostrojoe »

I took a look at the D&D 5E table for Lifestyle expenses.
I took a look at pag.90 of the CKG. The payment for hirelings table has some oddities, but I came up with a prospect that I think can be near the C&C economics, that are far different from the Medieval Europe. Also, in the CKG is clearly stated that gold is not as rare as in the real world, and that it is common currency for that reason.
I've seen that an unskilled laborer earns 1gp for month, while a Captain of an army 25. Also, the court wizard (sage/astrologer or advisor role) is at 50gp per month.
So I figured out this list:

Squalid: 1 sp
Poor: 1 gp
Modest: 3 gp
Confortable: 15 gp
Wealthy: 50 gp
Aristocratic 150+ gp

That is, for an exemple, sodliers have a wage between 3 gp and 5 gp, so (if they want to keep something to save) they can have a lifestyle that goes from poor to modest. A knight can have a confortable lifestyle and the captain of the castle can be more than comfortable without being wealthy. High level court members can be considered indeed wealthy without being aristocratic. The difference between nobilty and unskilled laborers seem good enough too.

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