Assisted attribute checks

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JShan101
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Assisted attribute checks

Post by JShan101 »

I'm sure this has been asked before, and I can homebrew up my own answer but: how do you handle an assisted attribute check, like two players trying to force open a door. My lazy scrolling through the PHB and CKG didn't give me any clues. Lower the CL? Both roll, take the better? Add both attribute bonuses to one roll? In 5E it's a check with advantage, as I recall, so I'm wondering what you feel the best way is to handle it with Siege.

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Grandpa
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Grandpa »

There is no hard fast rule because too many variables. 5Es rule is too restrictive and probably not accurate for most situations. It might be a DISADVANTAGE to have another "help". The easiest way is to USE the Siege Engine mechanism. Simply analyse the situation and what YOU think would happen if another helped as the player describes. Look at the Challenge Level. What bonus to the roll do YOU think should be made based on what is happening. The 7' PC Barbarian is pushing on a 3' wide door to force it open. Does the 3' Hobbit help, hinder or not influence the Barbarian's effort? If the Barbarian needs an unmodified 9 to succeed that means a 55% chance to succeed. How much, in 5% increments does the Hobbit move the needle one way or another?

serleran
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by serleran »

There are several ways to handle it, but I believe there are a couple (at least one anyway) offered in the CKG though I do not know the page offhand.

What I generally do is this:

First determine if the assistance will actually help -- some tasks, like hide in shadows, may not be able to benefit from a helper
a) If the assistance does benefit, the user of the skill/ability gets to treat the check as Prime
b) if the user of the skill/ability already has Prime, they get a +3 bonus instead

Note, some tasks may require multiple people as a condition for success regardless, such as moving a very heavy statue. In this case, none give the other any benefit -- they either have the attribute requirement (say a combined 45 Strength) or they do not. I may allow a barbarian to use their skill to increase their physical score by 6+ level so theoretically possible for them to do certain amazing feats alone.

However none of the above is official.

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Captain_K
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Captain_K »

everyone likes to roll, so when two folks are truly helpful, like two folks hunting for dinner, both have are skilled hunters (but not class abilities that define success) I let each roll, two successes means they were successful and got more than each would have taken, each could be successful so a successful hunt together, both miss, unsuccessful hunt... so whatever each had for odd, together they 3 of 4 times more likely to get success and much less likely to come up empty handed... but all the above are GREAT guides and methods too.

I really like setting somethings as a total of x or y is needed to lift heavy stuff... certain things just cannot be done without the tools or the brute strength, roll is not the answer.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

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Kayolan
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Kayolan »

I could've sworn I read about assisting bonuses for siege checks somewhere in the CKG but I just can't seem to find it anywhere

I was thinking about how I want to rule multiple grappling opponents on a single figure.

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Rigon
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Rigon »

I would typaclly allow the relavent attribute bonuses to stack. I also usually have the character with Prime roll. Gives the PCs a better chance to succeed.

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Kayolan
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Kayolan »

Rigon wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:02 pm
I would typaclly allow the relavent attribute bonuses to stack. I also usually have the character with Prime roll. Gives the PCs a better chance to succeed.

R-
How would you handle something like 4 hobgoblins trying to grapple a human at the same time? What would the hobgoblins get as a bonus?

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Rigon
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Rigon »

Kayolan wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:45 pm
Rigon wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:02 pm
I would typaclly allow the relavent attribute bonuses to stack. I also usually have the character with Prime roll. Gives the PCs a better chance to succeed.

R-
How would you handle something like 4 hobgoblins trying to grapple a human at the same time? What would the hobgoblins get as a bonus?
I'd probably give a +1 bonus for assisting. But could 4 hobgoblins realistically get close enough to one human sized object to effectively help each other?

Plus, as you know, I play fast and loose with the rules. I guess it would depend on if I wanted the hobs to have a better chance of success or not. I'm more worried about making things challenging and exciting for the players than I am in codifying anything. So the bonus would change based on that more than anything.

If that makes sense.

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Kayolan
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Kayolan »

That makes sense.

I think it might be possible for 4 people to grapple one character, but more likely I would use the overbearing rules in that case.

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Grandpa
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Grandpa »

Kayolan wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:26 am
That makes sense.

I think it might be possible for 4 people to grapple one character, but more likely I would use the overbearing rules in that case.
Yes, that would seem to have to be the activity it would devolve into based on the size of the combatants.

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Kayolan
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Re: Assisted attribute checks

Post by Kayolan »

Grandpa wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:15 pm
Kayolan wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:26 am
That makes sense.

I think it might be possible for 4 people to grapple one character, but more likely I would use the overbearing rules in that case.
Yes, that would seem to have to be the activity it would devolve into based on the size of the combatants.
It's what I tend to have opponents do when they surround a character as it makes for a much better attack to bring the character down regardless of how much armor he's wearing.

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