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Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:01 pm

Heyo, Crusaders. New to the system, though a veteran (very) of RPGs. Looking over M&T, I'm wondering what determines a monster's hit die TYPE. I see that a lot of monster have a d8 (common), but for example, Goblins get a d6.

What determines this? Size? Dice? A whim?

Thanks in advance for your sage advice!

Re: Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 pm

Mostly common sense. CKs are encouraged to change the number and type of the HD to balance against the party.

Re: Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:43 pm

I've always looked at the HD type as a function of Constitution or Fortitude of the creature in question. Constructs with their d10 due to artificial stamina and material toughness. Dragons and Undead get d12s (even if not necessarily BtB) for both sheer power/vitality or no biological limiters in place due to death/unstoppable being dead.

Goblins aren't really strong so a weaker (d6) than say more robust creatures like Orcs and whatnot. It may not be how the creators of the game looked at things necessarily, but it puts a bit of reason to my thinking at least.

Re: Monster hit die type

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:43 pm

Everything in the books are "suggestions".. they're logical... so tweak as you need to.. why does the mage get d4 and the barbarian get d12... both have same level....

Re: Monster hit die type

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:48 pm

During the writing of M&T, I had a few self-appointed guidelines...

1) stay as close as possible to first edition regarding overall average HP

2) stay within the boundaries of the d20 (3rd edition) SRD

To do the first, like many things in C&C, some assumed complications were eliminated. For example, there were not to be creatures with 1/2 HD -- these would be 1d4.

Many if not all monsters with a HD modifier, like 1d8-1 would reduce down to 1d6 or, if higher, would increase so that Xd8+3 would become Xd10... most times.

The goal was to reduce monster HD to a single number making them easier to remember, especially for newer players yet still be familiar enough that an older gamer would recognize it -- at least for the HP totals.

This did not always work out.

I did write a "creature crucible" where I described in a little more detail about specific monster types but really, it was "Rule 1" above that drove virtually all my decisions for M&T. What others have done after, I don't know as I haven't paid any attention.

Re: Monster hit die type

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:14 pm

JShan101 wrote:Heyo, Crusaders. New to the system, though a veteran (very) of RPGs. Looking over M&T, I'm wondering what determines a monster's hit die TYPE. I see that a lot of monster have a d8 (common), but for example, Goblins get a d6.

What determines this? Size? Dice? A whim?

Thanks in advance for your sage advice!



Considering someone that helped write the book already answered your question, I won't put in my assumptions on it, but I will say Welcome to the Crusades, good to see new blood around here.

Re: Monster hit die type

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:54 pm

Lurker wrote:
JShan101 wrote:Heyo, Crusaders. New to the system, though a veteran (very) of RPGs. Looking over M&T, I'm wondering what determines a monster's hit die TYPE. I see that a lot of monster have a d8 (common), but for example, Goblins get a d6.

What determines this? Size? Dice? A whim?

Thanks in advance for your sage advice!



Considering someone that helped write the book already answered your question, I won't put in my assumptions on it, but I will say Welcome to the Crusades, good to see new blood around here.


Well, old guy new blood, anyway. Getting back into the hobby after too long away, and C&C is scratching the itch nicely. (Tried 5e...I'm so-so on it thus far.)
Thanks for the welcome!

Re: Monster hit die type

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:56 pm

serleran wrote:During the writing of M&T, I had a few self-appointed guidelines...


Straight from the source! Awesome!

Thank you for the insight. With some systems the answer can turn out to be "Because we felt like it"--especially on things that at first glance might seem arbitrary.

It was just my old-school "But every monsters' HD is a d8..." mindset getting in the way.

Onward! I have PCs to slaughter!

.......uh...challenge...I mean, um....challenge. Yeah.

Re: Monster hit die type

Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm

serleran wrote:What others have done after, I don't know as I haven't paid any attention.

A lot of negativity in the sentence above, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. Anyway, when it came to hit dice I left them as is with a couple of exceptions. One exception was because of a typo. The other was yellow mold, where it needed to have one hit point to function by the RAW.

So now you know, even though you weren't asking. :)

Re: Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:44 pm

I think you picked out one fraction of what he said. You two both do great work, please keep up you professionalism. I think it was a simple statement with some snark, but reasonable. You both helped answer the question.

Re: Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:20 pm

Like I said, I may have read too much into what he was saying. At the same time, he was there first and yet even today I get the vibe that he feels marginalized. Whether that vibe I'm getting is because of the editing work done to the book or something else entirely I don't know. What I do know is that work I did on the book was not done to replace his input, but to improve on it. But that also seems to be the source of some antipathy.

Re: Monster hit die type

Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:25 pm

Or we're all cranky sounding in emails and posts. This format is ripe for too much reading between the lines.

I really respect the work both of you two do, you're both amazing!

Re: Monster hit die type

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:01 am

Captain_K wrote:Or we're all cranky sounding in emails and posts. This format is ripe for too much reading between the lines.

I really respect the work both of you two do, you're both amazing!


RGR that
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