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Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Combo 
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Henchman

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:59 pm
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Post Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Combo
(Previously Posted in - Castle Keeper - I'm hoping to get feedback here)
So my CK and I have been at odds about my druids ability to Shape Stone into 1 cu ft AKAMAT (frog god) statues (I can make 25 of them as of lvl5), then use Ordain to make each one a holy item (for 100gp per 10 statues). In the third round I would use Animate Holy Item to bring them all to life as 1HD creatures. In the fourth round I can cast Venerate on one to create a nice little surprise (Holy Bomb) for whoever I sick these little guys on, and lastly should the statue (with Venerate cast on it) be attacked or destroyed I can instantly cast Behold The Blasphemer and basically finish off the enemy with a truly devastating instant attack.

So his argument is that he doesn't think Ordain can be used to make the statues holy so that I can cast Animate Holy Item on them. Can I get some feedback on this please? Has anyone else seen this type of combination used before?.. or allowed it to be used? He told me we would need to consult "the forum" on this one... I dont think he likes how much of a PITA my Druid is. His spells are OP!!!

Additionally, does anyone have an opinion on the druid being able to carry just one "Ordained/Venerated" statue with him that he could animate at any time? Obviously the stone statue would be really heavy so he could carry (1) around MAXIMUM.

One More Thing!!! - Does anyone have an opinion on how large of an area Behold The Blasphemer effects?

Below are the details of the spells mentioned above for your ease and review:

SHAPE STONE OR WOOD,
lEvEl 3 DRUID CT 1 R touch D see below SV n/a SR n/a Comp V, S, M, DFBy
use of this dweomer, the caster can shape a piece of stone or wood into any desired form. A stone or wooden weapon or piece of furniture or any other item is possible. Doors can be reshaped to allow entry/exit, walls parted with a passage, or anything else that the druid can imagine and that fits within the range of material that the spell effects is possible. It takes one round to shape each 1 cubic foot of material. Note that the creations will inevitably be crude, as fine workmanship and finishing are beyond the scope of this invocation. The spell’s area of effect is 10 cubic feet +1 cubic foot per level. The material component is a splinter of wood or stone set in clay.

ORDAIN, Level 1 cleric, 2 druid
CT 1 hour R see below D until negated
SV none SR none Comp DF, M, S, V
The spell is used to sanctify an item or place with sacerdotal functions. The item or place ordained is magical, but confers nothing other than a capacity to be used in ministerial functions. For example, it could be that holy water can only be created in an ordained cup, spring, decanter or some other type of vessel or location. Another example could be that for an oxen to be properly sacrificed, an ordained knife must be used. An item or location so ordained remains so until it is revoked. Revocation is this spell’s opposite. A place or item ordained requires a sacrifice of 100gp in kind per ten cubic ft. The caster can ordain 10 cubic ft. per level.

ANIMATE HOLY ITEM, Level 1 cleric, 2 druid
CT 2 R 50 ft. D 5rds.+1rd./lvl.
SV none SR none Comp DF, V
With animate holy item, the cleric or druid is able to temporarily bring small, stone items to life. The spell affects only those items that have been blessed or consecrated to the cleric’s or
druid’s deity, such as an idol, scarab, holy symbol, etc. The item in question animates and obeys the caster. The item must be something that can move and attack on its own; animating a holy ring has no affect other than it is animated. The caster can animate a number of items equal to his level squared. For instance a 4th level cleric can animate 16 items. Any such item has an AC of 12, attacks as a 1 HD monster, has 4 hit points and deals 1-2 points of damage. They can be turned by a paladin or cleric, but not controlled by an evil cleric.

VENERATE, Level 1 cleric, 1 druid
CT 1 min./lvl. R Touch D permanent
SV WIS half SR none Comp V, DF
With venerate the caster is able to imbue any item with holy significance. Anyone who desecrates the item suffers for it. Once desecrated the item unleashes a wave of power that strikes everyone in the area of affect inflicting 1d6 points of damage per level of the caster. Those in the area of effect are allowed a wisdom save for half damage. Venerate does not affect those who serve the item or the cause that the item represents (as determined by the Castle Keeper). Those who do, even those friendly to the barer or caster, suffer the damage. Desecrating an item involves attempts to destroy it, casting it the ground, marring or vandalizing it and similar actions as determined by the Castle Keeper.

BEHOLD THE BLASPHEMER, Level 1 cleric, 1 druid
CT 1 R 10 ft.+10ft./lvl. D immediate
SV yes SR yes Comp DF, V
This powerful spell should be in every cleric’s daily spell list. Whenever a cleric, their deity or even pantheon is derided, cursed, laughed at or in any way blasphemed by an individual, the cleric can call down the vengeance of their deity upon the blasphemer. The cleric is able to cast a wounding spell that causes 1d8 damage per level of the caster against that person or creature. The recipient is allowed a wisdom saving throw for half damage.

As of 9-3-19: My CK and I decided to nerf these spells a bit and are working on a solution to this spell combo doing (40 - 120 DMG min) - Here's what we are working on (Play testing will be done 9/13):
ME:
We could make a few tweeks like changing the gold requirement to keep some sanity to spells (50g per item instead of 100g per 10 sq ft. - JMHO). Also we could tweek Venerate and Behold the Blasphemer to make them 1d8 & 1d10 respectively per 3 caster lvls and adjust it later if we need to. That would let them advance with me but not be so powerful that it ruins the game. And we could probably bring the number of animations down to 2 per caster lvl. that way the army of frogs would be more like a small mob.
So a scenario would play out like this:
Rounds
1) cast Shape Stone & create 5 frogs
2) Ordain the Frogs for 250g
3) Animate them (This spell has a CT of 2 but I think with all of these nerfs we should make it a CT 1)
4) cast Venerate on 1 frog
5) I can cast BTB on anyone who hits a frog....


Keep in mind my resources are finite and I can only cast so many lvl 1 & 2 spells and as it is this combo would leave me vulnerable to attack for at least 3 rds so its not like it would be too crazy. If I get attacked/distracted I may not even finish the combo before the end of the fight.

Just wait unit I start blessing shields and swords so I can venerate and BTB people who attack me...lol (Probably not)

MY CK:
I spent the last day thinking about it from a different angle, thinking of the Aihrde setting and the god Amenut himself. The power to make all this work comes from Amenut. Like all gods he would be a bit narcissistic. Would he want you purposely tossing holy images representing him at your enemies willy-nilly knowing these images would be destroyed? Would he require you to go all out as a worshiper of him? Would you need to preach his good word and get him more worshipers? Would he want you setting up shrines to him all over the forest, perhaps a shrine for every image you use in combat? Would he allow the spells to only work against enemies he identifies? How would the other Og-Aust gods, a few who also still have avatars in the Darkenfold react to using Amenut images to attack their worshipers? And etc...

Thinking about this stuff could both add to the role-play fun and keep the potential to overwhelm the game under control.

------------------------

I think some combo of these tweeks would work very well. I definitely plan to make a shrine every time I use his image in a combat situation (1 per day max). The gold should be between 25-50g and perhaps we should tweek Venerate to 1d8 per 3 caster lvls but leave Behold the Blasphemer alone (1d8 per caster lvl).


Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:28 pm
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Ulthal
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Posts: 456
Location: San Diego, Ca
Post Re: Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Com
I'd probably allow it, it's a truck load of spells to throw for a single combat advantage. (I mean compare all that to a wizard throwing fireball)

I will add I don't have all the spells in my game so they'd also have to be researched and approved -- that just because a TLG book has spells doesn't mean the DM has to allow them. -Mike


Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 pm
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Henchman

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:59 pm
Posts: 3
Post Re: Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Com
mgtremaine wrote:
I'd probably allow it, it's a truck load of spells to throw for a single combat advantage. (I mean compare all that to a wizard throwing fireball)

I will add I don't have all the spells in my game so they'd also have to be researched and approved -- that just because a TLG book has spells doesn't mean the DM has to allow them. -Mike


Good point - but throw in a verbal barrier and now the druid has about 5 turns to build his army.
You are right though, this is not an effective direct combat tech but I've run a campaign where were raided a stronghold from the roof. That would have been an excellent place to sit build an army and let them flood in and attack everyone in sight. I think it has very advantageous attributes to it. Situationally it could definitely turn the tide of a battle.


Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:17 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Com
It's legal. Sanctify, consecrate, and bless are all synonyms of each other; so no foul on spell descriptions. As mgt pointed out, it's a lot of spells for a very inventive but singular trap/advantage.

Behold the Blasphemer is clearly a single target RAW. "...against that person or creature." (singular reference rather than plural.)

1 cubic foot of sandstone = 150 lbs. Limestone/granite = 175 lbs. (a reason we call them 2 man boulders in construction) Pumice on the other hand would only be 40 lbs/cf. If using a simplified EV conversion of 1/10 lb/EV; 15 EV for Sandstone; 18 EV limestone/granite; 4 EV Pumice stone.

Hope that helps.

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:34 pm
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Ulthal
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 am
Posts: 456
Location: San Diego, Ca
Post Re: Druid - Animate Holy Item / Frog Statue Army - Spell Com
xForestManx wrote:
mgtremaine wrote:
I'd probably allow it, it's a truck load of spells to throw for a single combat advantage. (I mean compare all that to a wizard throwing fireball)

I will add I don't have all the spells in my game so they'd also have to be researched and approved -- that just because a TLG book has spells doesn't mean the DM has to allow them. -Mike


Good point - but throw in a verbal barrier and now the druid has about 5 turns to build his army.
You are right though, this is not an effective direct combat tech but I've run a campaign where were raided a stronghold from the roof. That would have been an excellent place to sit build an army and let them flood in and attack everyone in sight. I think it has very advantageous attributes to it. Situationally it could definitely turn the tide of a battle.



Yep and that kind of prep and spell list choice for an assault on a keep is bang on. I looked through my character sheets and I have 6th Druid this my typical spell list

Druid Spells: 5 4 4 2
0th: First Aid, Light, Create Water, Endure Elements [2]
1st: Alarm, Calm Animals, Invisibility to Animals, Entangle
2nd: Cure Light Wounds, Summon Swarm x2, Heat Metal
3rd: Shape Stone, Neutralize Poison

So for your DM he needs to realize you are giving up a lot of utility for a big bang. (But we all agree Stone Shape rocks)

-Mike


Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:14 pm
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