Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
Sun May 06, 2018 2:38 am
I recently acquired a gray colored bag of tricks, which produces a bat, cat, rat, badger, weasel to serve the owner for 10 minutes.
I have searched Monsters & Treasure, Classic Monsters, and Mystical Companions. Despite various claims in one book that a description of the animal can be found in another book, I can find no stats of any kind for bat, rat or weasel. Badgers are in Classic Monsters and cats are in Monsters & Treasure.
Can anyone actually provide a definite source of stats for these common animals? Please don't tell me "they should be in..." If you have the book in front of you and can read the stats, then tell me what book (or fan-based web page) you are looking at.
Sun May 06, 2018 2:50 am
Basic (core?) stats for the cat and weasel can be found under the Summon Familiar Spell in the Player's Handbook. It doesn't give the entire monster block for them, but enough to make them playable. It is noted in the description that the CK is expected to flesh them out as desired. The badger (ratel) is in the Classic Monsters & Treasures Book. Bats and Rats are not listed, though their inclusion in the Summon Swarm spell would seem to infer that they have minimal HD and damage. Recommend HD 1d2 for both, Bite (1), AC: 12. Bat gets Sonar (Dark Vision 120' for relevant purposes) and Flies 100'. Rat gets Twilight Vision. Essentially a much powered down Giant Rat.
Sun May 06, 2018 2:50 am
As far as I know, there are no stats for those. Although, I haven't indexed most of the newer books so I could be wrong.
Basic (core?) stats for the missing critters can be found under the Summon Familiar Spell in the Player's Handbook. It doesn't give the entire monster block for them, but enough to make them playable. It is noted in the description that the CK is expected to flesh them out as desired.
Bat and rat is only mentioned under CK's choice, no stats.
Here is a quick bat conversion I did.BatNo. Encountered:
5 ft., 40 ft. (fly)AC:
Bats are nocturnal flying mammals, brown or black in color with leathery wings.
Bats are normally inoffensive and will not attack anything larger than a small insect.Bewilder:
When either panicking or controlled by another creature, a flock of bats can be very confusing as they fly around an opponent.
Any character with ten or more bats attacking them will be bewildered and suffer a -2 penalty on both attack rolls and saving throws. Additionally, a bewildered character may not cast spells.
Sun May 06, 2018 3:08 am
I went and looked up the stats I used for both on my Mage Familiar Generator spreadsheet.
Rat - HD: 2d2 (use 1d2 for official consistency), AC: 13, Move: 30'/climb 15', Saves: P, Attack: - Special: Twilight Vision, Hide
Bat - HD: 2d2 (see above), AC: 13, Move: 5'/ Fly 50', Saves: P, Attack: - Special: Sonar, Superior Hearing
Int: Animal. Type: Animal. Treasure: Nil. XP: 5+1 for both.
Peter: Inoffensive my arse. Brown bats are vindictive little buggers when ticked off. (such as stepping on them after knocking them out of the tree you are cutting down). They'll buzz bomb you for several minutes until you get low to the ground like a large rock, then fly off. lol
Sun May 06, 2018 3:23 am
Go0gleplex Ha, I don't doubt it about the bats. The description is based off the BECMI one. The BECMI description says "They will not attack men but may confuse them by flying around their heads."
Here is the rat, another conversion.
No. Encountered: 5-50
HD: 1 HP
Move: 20 ft., 10 ft. (swim)
Attacks: Bite (1 HP)
Rats are omnivorous rodents, who are adept at learning and have a very well developed direction sense.
Combat: Normally, rats will not attack large creatures unless magically controlled. If they do attack, the rats should be split into groups of 5-10 individuals. Each group will attack a single target, and can collectively bite using a single attack roll. If enough rats are killed that a group is no longer viable, those rats will disperse.
Disease: Rat bites have a 1 in 20 chance of transmitting a disease. If this is the case, the victim is affected as if by a Cause Disease spell. A successful constitution saving throw allows the victim to avoid the effects of the disease.
Sun May 06, 2018 3:37 am
I posted my Expanded Familiar Tables (by Biome) in the Society Downloads section on the Knights of the Crusade site. Developed these back in 2010 when I did an automated spreadsheet to roll rather than the book table. Some have official stats now in the various books which take precedence over my attempts. Use as you wish.
Sun May 06, 2018 4:00 am
Nice. I'm thinking the animals that Damon pointed out are not in the Cnc Book of Familiar, because they were not in the d20 version. They probably were not in the d20 version, because they were already in the d20 SRD.
Mon May 07, 2018 5:22 pm
Many of the truly basic animals were left out on purpose.
Tue May 08, 2018 5:25 am
Some of them could probably be done as a Template Monster like Birds of Prey, Herd Animals, Snakes, and Spiders were.
Thu May 10, 2018 5:47 am
Not quite a weasel, but the M&T of Ahidre has a ferret:
Attacks: Bite, 1 point
Special: Scent, +2 on Surprise
XP: 3 + 1/hp
Thu May 10, 2018 12:16 pm
That should be close enough for government work, as they say. Thanks!
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