Help making first dungeon

[FateAce]

I'm getting ready to run my first Castles and crusades campaign very soon. However I'm very concerned about several factors of my first dungeon, most importantly, is it too hard for a group of first level characters to complete, and am I awarding a good amount of treasure. Allow me to get specific so I can get the best answer:

My party consists of an Assassin, a Knight, a Druid, a Bard, and a Cleric.

The first dungeon is a crpyt, and the party is hunting down a strange creature that has made it's home there. The monsters in the dungeon are as follows:
The creature their hunting (whose stats are equal to a giant ape),
A total of 13 kobolds, most holdign daggers, and a few with javalins,
And 2 spiders in a side room (size small).

Without going through the whole dungeon, heres the most import details of their placement:
-There is one kobold just within the entrance. If he notices them, he will run and warn all remaining kobolds of their presence.
-After the first room, the party will have 4 doors to get through, one has 3 kobolds gambling inside, who will get suspicious of potential intruders if they hear the aforementioned kobold die (he dies screaming).
-Another room has the two spiders.
-The third door has no monsters, but the fourth has two more kobolds, who upon seeing the party, will retreat through a hole in the wall they made.
-Beyond the hole is a small cave where all remaining kobolds are. If the first kobold survives, all but a few kobolds will be here.
-The final room beyond this has the creature they're searching for, who will fight along side the few absent kobolds if they were alerted.

As far as treasure is concerned, I rolled up treasure using the table in the monster manual, and after deciding how to split up the coinage types, I came up with a total of 160gp, 980sp, and 2200cp across the whole dungeon, plus a few gems (valued at 5, 10, 50, and 250 respectivly, though the 250 one is hidden behind a secret door). My biggest concern here is how many cp the math gave me (assuming I did it right).

So now back to the earlier question. As far as c&c is concerned, is this a suitable dungeon for a freshly made group of players? As far as monster go I realize death is a normal part of old school games, but I want to give the party immunity for the first session so they don't get angry at the game right away (this is their first time with this rule set was well). Is there any advice to give on this dungeon, or have I somehow managed to create the perfect first level dungeon (I doubt it though)?

[Treebore]

It sounds fine to me. Just the rest relies on your players to use solid tactics, and have good spells avaialble to them. If the Cleric selects the correct first level spell, especially if he gets it twice (Sound Burst), the Cleric could wipe all the Kobolds out by himself.

So aside from the main creature, this could also turn out to be a cakewalk. Player tactics, spell selections, and how the dice roll will determine just how easy or dificult it will be.

[alcyone]

I'm getting ready to run my first Castles and crusades campaign very soon. However I'm very concerned about several factors of my first dungeon, most importantly, is it too hard for a group of first level characters to complete, and am I awarding a good amount of treasure.

A few things, I am not sure if this is your first dungeon, or your first C&C dungeon, but:

1. If it's your first dungeon, let it be a first dungeon. Messy and broken and something you'll all remember. Don't sweat the details and if it goes south do better next time.

2. You know the party composition. Why not run the combats running the characters yourself between now and the game and see how they fare?

3. First level characters can be one-shotted easily; so they don't necessarily come back from the first hit. The disaster if they die, though, is that the party loses 1 attack per round. That is the most important currency in the game. It looks like your kobolds are pretty spread out. If the party is careful to not set them all off at once (and they can hit anything after the spider poison), they'll be fine (overall).

You can also roll treasure using my website: http://www.rpggrognard.com/treasure. Mine can produce copper if you tell it to split coinage also. The way it does it is to convert it all to copper, take a random chunk divisible by 500 (to convert to PP), then 100 (to convert back to GP), take a random chunk divisible by 10 (to convert to SP), and the rest is copper. I like giving out lots of spare change, 22 gold pieces worth of coins that weigh 140 pounds amuses me.

One tip: give your characters max gold to buy whatever armor they want from the equipment list. That will help most of the characters a lot. Unlike giving max hit points, it will even out at around 2nd or 3rd level when they can buy anything they want anyway. Also, be sure to give the assassin an opportunity to use that unique set of skills. This is easier in a 100 foot room with lots of shadows, obstacles, rocks, than a 10 foot room with a lantern.

[FateAce]

It sounds fine to me. Just the rest relies on your players to use solid tactics, and have good spells avaialble to them.

Yeah, this is the part that concerns me a little, but the more I think about it, it should be alright.

A few things, I am not sure if this is your first dungeon, or your first C&C dungeon, but:

First c&c dungeon. I've run a couple of other campaigns in different rulesets (My most successful campaign was run in savage worlds for example). I was just concerned this time around because c&c follows a mantra I'm not used to, and last time I tread this ground it ended horribly.

Either way, thanks for both of your input, I'm am significantly less concerned now.

[Go0gleplex]

This sounds more like a raiding band than a lair. Reasons being; 1) low numbers; 2) no females/young; 3) no traps (kobolds LOVE their traps).

As noted previously, you have a few kobolds initially spread out. This is not bad, but I would have a simple trap to serve as an alarm with the first kobold lookout. Kobolds are cowardly, so he would hide while the trap serves as the actual alarm.

Also as noted, PCs are a bit squishier than you might expect at first level. The assassin...mayhaps have an area that can be discovered where the assassin or PC can observe the boss and what seems to be the bulk of your kobolds. Again, kobolds are cowardly and known to gang up on enemies. Especially those that look weaker. Your druid...will be hamstrung a bit underground. With a large mob, maybe a few roots growing down into the room where a well placed entangle could affect a few of them should an observant player so note.

Other than that, what Aer said. Don't worry about perfect or polished. Just have fun with it.

[Buttmonkey]

-After the first room, the party will have 4 doors to get through, one has 3 kobolds gambling inside, who will get suspicious of potential intruders if they hear the aforementioned kobold die (he dies screaming).

The bolded part is the only thing that stood out to me as potentially problematic. I'm not sure you are saying the kobold will automatically scream if he is killed by the party (thereby alerting his fellow kobolds) or that if the kobold dies screaming, then the others will be alerted. I would encourage you not to decide in advance that the kobold will die screaming. Play to find out what happens. For example, if the party beats on it a little, but doesn't kill it in the first round, then it makes a lot of sense that the kobold would scream for help. On the other hand, if a PC takes it out in one shot with max damage, maybe you want to view that as the kobold goes down with barely a gurgle.

[Penny-Whistle]

An Assassin, a Knight, a Druid, a Bard, and a Cleric walk into a dungeon ...

The encounters look easy to me which will mean your players will end feeling some success on their first go. You can make subsequent dungeons more difficult. Give as much or as little loot as you like. It all depends on how quickly you want them to level up. If I may make a suggestion (and maybe you've already considered this) another aspect I like to think of when designing encounters is considering what the characters bring to the game.

Especially if this will be the first time your players play C&C it might be nice to give each one an opportunity to shine at least once during the mini adventure. So as others already mentioned, design the last room carefully to give the Assassin an opportunity to Case the Target. If the druid doesn't already have an animal companion put one or two possibilities into the mix. Or have the ape leave footprints that the Druid might notice. Perhaps those footprints lead to a secret door opening into the final lair or a trap or a treasure room. Consider adding in a monster that can cause the party to be afraid or demoralized. Such a situation lets both the Bard and the Knight use their abilities to bolster the group. As for the cleric ... maybe throw in something undead or make a few of the kobolds undead so he or she can use their Turn Undead skill.

If you can do this then you are designing your dungeon in a way that allows each person to feel like they had something unique to contribute. Ditto this idea if any of them chose a special race. Give the Dwarf or Elf or whatever an opportunity to use their unique talents. If you already know your players tastes consider whether or not you want to add in a role playing opportunity somewhere along the line or maybe a trap.

[FateAce]

This sounds more like a raiding band than a lair. Reasons being; 1) low numbers; 2) no females/young; 3) no traps (kobolds LOVE their traps).

As noted previously, you have a few kobolds initially spread out. This is not bad, but I would have a simple trap to serve as an alarm with the first kobold lookout. Kobolds are cowardly, so he would hide while the trap serves as the actual alarm.

Also as noted, PCs are a bit squishier than you might expect at first level. The assassin...mayhaps have an area that can be discovered where the assassin or PC can observe the boss and what seems to be the bulk of your kobolds. Again, kobolds are cowardly and known to gang up on enemies. Especially those that look weaker. Your druid...will be hamstrung a bit underground. With a large mob, maybe a few roots growing down into the room where a well placed entangle could affect a few of them should an observant player so note.

As far as traps go, I do have a few of them here. I just left them out of my first post because I was more concerned about the kobolds themselves.

I did actually have the idea that the 'boss' room is partially exposed to sunlight, and has a ton of overgrowth and whatnot. I think I'll go ahead and make the official now.

The bolded part is the only thing that stood out to me as potentially problematic. I'm not sure you are saying the kobold will automatically scream if he is killed by the party (thereby alerting his fellow kobolds) or that if the kobold dies screaming, then the others will be alerted. I would encourage you not to decide in advance that the kobold will die screaming. Play to find out what happens. For example, if the party beats on it a little, but doesn't kill it in the first round, then it makes a lot of sense that the kobold would scream for help. On the other hand, if a PC takes it out in one shot with max damage, maybe you want to view that as the kobold goes down with barely a gurgle.

Yeah I didn't make that part too clear. My plan is that when the party first enters the dungeon, he's rummaging through and old coffin (still deciding why, probably a few coins in one of them), and if he notices the party are there, but dies before reaching the door, he screams in pain (unless as you stated it would make sense otherwise).

An Assassin, a Knight, a Druid, a Bard, and a Cleric walk into a dungeon ...

The encounters look easy to me which will mean your players will end feeling some success on their first go. You can make subsequent dungeons more difficult. Give as much or as little loot as you like. It all depends on how quickly you want them to level up. If I may make a suggestion (and maybe you've already considered this) another aspect I like to think of when designing encounters is considering what the characters bring to the game.

Especially if this will be the first time your players play C&C it might be nice to give each one an opportunity to shine at least once during the mini adventure. So as others already mentioned, design the last room carefully to give the Assassin an opportunity to Case the Target. If the druid doesn't already have an animal companion put one or two possibilities into the mix. Or have the ape leave footprints that the Druid might notice. Perhaps those footprints lead to a secret door opening into the final lair or a trap or a treasure room. Consider adding in a monster that can cause the party to be afraid or demoralized. Such a situation lets both the Bard and the Knight use their abilities to bolster the group. As for the cleric ... maybe throw in something undead or make a few of the kobolds undead so he or she can use their Turn Undead skill.

If you can do this then you are designing your dungeon in a way that allows each person to feel like they had something unique to contribute. Ditto this idea if any of them chose a special race. Give the Dwarf or Elf or whatever an opportunity to use their unique talents. If you already know your players tastes consider whether or not you want to add in a role playing opportunity somewhere along the line or maybe a trap.

So I just looked over my map on more time, and realized that by pure coincidence, I have a secret that butts up against the boss room, so I'll go ahead and say it opens on both walls so the assassin can flank the boss. I'll also have one of the kobolds know a fear spell for some reason which he casts on the party, to allow the bard and knight their time to shine. As for the cleric, for story reasons (a curse), his powers function as if he were an evil cleric, and he would rather not use his cleric powers if possible, except for maybe a few healing spells. So the undead will sit this one out.

[Lurker]

First, FateAce, welcome to the forum. Be ready to ask questions and get lots of ideas and different opinions. Pick through them and take what works best for you.

I agree with GoO on it sounds more like a raiding party than a true layer, but tomato potato. It doesn't overly matter. it is good enough that they are there and need to be killed by lowly new heroes (if an assassin or a cursed cleric can be heroes).

For the monsters, I over the years learned t fear kobolds ! They are masters at traps and dirty tricks. Now I wouldn't be to rough on a new group of players with low level characters. However, I'd be ready to have audibles prepped for the little nasties to use if the players are rolling through them with ease.

That said, I like the idea of the one of them having a fear spell, that will be a surprise for the party.

Rgr on what was mentioned earlier on good tactics and letting players shine. Maybe have the knight be able to do a mounted charge and wallop a small group before they get to the layer. Then see if the assassin will be smart enough to sneak in and stick the first lone kobold before he can warn the rest of the little beasties.

[alcyone]

It's probably superfluous to mention this well known report of a successful kobold engagement, but here it is just in case:

http://tuckerskobolds.com/

[Penny-Whistle]

"As far as traps go, I do have a few of them here. I just left them out of my first post because I was more concerned about the kobolds themselves.

I did actually have the idea that the 'boss' room is partially exposed to sunlight, and has a ton of overgrowth and whatnot. I think I'll go ahead and make the official now." etc

Since you mentioned you already have experience running games I pretty much figured you probably already considered most if not all that I wrote. It sounds like everyone is going to enjoy what you've got planned. =) Hope you can tell us later how it went.

I really love the idea of customizing adventures to fit the players. People sometimes put a lot of effort into character creation and so it is nice to have that effort rewarded in some way. That reward might be simply successfully completing the mission but it feels so much more satisfying if it is a story reward. At least that is my experience. I consider the story aspects to be at least as important if not more so than the numbers stuff like monster stats and treasure.

What do you think about the inclusion of a Knight? A Knight in a dungeon is a bit like a fish on a unicycle. Not to mention the awkwardness the horse must feel standing around being Wyvern bait.

[Captain_K]

Relax, don't worry, tell the story and as needed make sure its fun for all, don't be a slave to preset plans of how it should go....

BUT tell us how it went after it goes...

[Captain_K]

Oh, Make sure the assassin gets at least one attempt at back stab (killing), that's where his fun it, may take some obvious set up on your part.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Nice job! When I write, I try to keep a few things in mind:
1.I try to provide the opportunity for each character to have his/her moment of glory.
2. As mentioned, party tactics are key; I'm not beneath including an encounter that could result in a TPK if not thought through.
3. Traps are a fun way to let rogue-types to shine.
4. Puzzles are underused; they add a different dimension that forces the players to think outside the box.

I worry about the lack of an arcane spellcaster in the group, to better round out the party's options.