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So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:42 pm
by Treebore
product. He says so himself.

"I have never been particularly good at promoting things. Promoting and advertising require a certain amount of flair. The whole showcase approach of "Look at Me, Look what I'm Doing" really goes against my nature. I can talk. When asked questions I can respond. But that is about it." -Steve, Troll Tusk #60.

So does anybody have any advice for him?

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:07 pm
by Rigon
Stop sucking at promotion. ;)

R-

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:43 pm
by Rhuvein
I'd say if he's happy with TLG sales and he's doing it his way, no advice needed! :)

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:08 pm
by Go0gleplex
Study all the Billy Mays ads and then channel the inner Billy! (w/o the addiction issues of course) :D

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:46 pm
by Aramis
Treebore wrote:product. He says so himself.

"I have never been particularly good at promoting things. Promoting and advertising require a certain amount of flair. The whole showcase approach of "Look at Me, Look what I'm Doing" really goes against my nature. I can talk. When asked questions I can respond. But that is about it." -Steve, Troll Tusk #60.

So does anybody have any advice for him?
Add the M&T to the bundle of holding promotion.

Presumably most of the buyers are new to C&C looking to try it out. They will have difficulty trying it out without the M&T. So, many of these potential new customers might drift over to another game, like, say, the pathfinder bundle, coincidentally going on at the same time, and offering a heck of a lot of content

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:40 am
by maximus
Rigon wrote:Stop sucking at promotion. ;)

R-
LOL! Sucking less is always good advice.

Seriously, I don't know what their production model or profit goals are, but the product is great. My guess is that word of mouth and presence at conventions give them their most visibility. Probably having links to the website on various blogs and gamer websites are the best way to promote the product in this day and age. Most gaming stores I've seen lately carry a minimum level of product, that being mostly D&D and Pathfinder.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:59 pm
by Captain_K
Hire someone who does not suck, based on sales, let a pro do it if you really care...

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:14 pm
by ArgoForg
Hm. Maybe give other, more "flair"-inclined sorts the reins and let them run wild! I've never had any major issues telling people that C&C is my mainstay tabletop game, and that it does everything I want in a FRPG without having the overwhelming rules bloat that consume other systems from the inside out, and I imagine other C&C devotees are much the same way. The C&C Society and Knights of the Crusade is a good start; it gives people a good impetus to spread word and show off the game at Cons and FLGSs.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:19 pm
by serleran
Booth babes.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:16 pm
by Troll Lord
Where I actually do best is in "interview" situations. I can go into all kinds of game related and company related stuff. But I've found when I do the 'selfie' video it takes a full day to do it and its quite dry.

I've been doing well on the radio show I've been on twice and that in mind I'm talking to Shane about doing interviewesque videos with me. He can then edit and clean and make them more interesting than me rambling on while looking at the camera. haha

Steve

post script: Robert, we've tried booth babes. Mixed results on that, so we thought of putting Davis in green speedoes!

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:40 pm
by serleran
Troll Lord wrote: post script: Robert, we've tried booth babes. Mixed results on that, so we thought of putting Davis in green speedoes!
Now you're playing with power!

And bring back the Troll sacs.

Interesting stuff brings attention. And sometimes questions. Or disgust. So, maybe be careful with them.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:02 pm
by Penny-Whistle
How do you measure success? I don't see the problem. They have made a game that is played coast to coast, has gone through multiple printings and inspired a couple of spin-offs. And nicely done with booth babe comment, Steve. I appreciate how you deflected the sexism in that with some humour. One thing that will most certainly negatively impact sales is excluding people and making them feel unwelcome.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:33 am
by Rhuvein
I've never made a Dr. Pepper float.

I can see that I need to try one. Especially with spiced rum.

There yeh go, a C&C gaming drink for adults . . or lose the rum and make the float for all the young gamers.

TLG Trollzah float!

8-)

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:10 pm
by Penny-Whistle
Rhuvein wrote:I've never made a Dr. Pepper float.

I can see that I need to try one. Especially with spiced rum.

There yeh go, a C&C gaming drink for adults . . or lose the rum and make the float for all the young gamers.

TLG Trollzah float!

8-)
hahahaha

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:24 pm
by serleran
Penny-Whistle wrote:How do you measure success? I don't see the problem. They have made a game that is played coast to coast, has gone through multiple printings and inspired a couple of spin-offs. And nicely done with booth babe comment, Steve. I appreciate how you deflected the sexism in that with some humour. One thing that will most certainly negatively impact sales is excluding people and making them feel unwelcome.
It is only sexism if one assumes "babe" refers to a specific gender.

Knowing trolls and their proclivities toward goats under bridges... perhaps any reference to a "babe" is a bad idea. However tasty a gyro might be. Munch, munch.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:35 pm
by Penny-Whistle
serleran wrote:
Penny-Whistle wrote:How do you measure success? I don't see the problem. They have made a game that is played coast to coast, has gone through multiple printings and inspired a couple of spin-offs. And nicely done with booth babe comment, Steve. I appreciate how you deflected the sexism in that with some humour. One thing that will most certainly negatively impact sales is excluding people and making them feel unwelcome.
It is only sexism if one assumes "babe" refers to a specific gender.

Knowing trolls and their proclivities toward goats under bridges... perhaps any reference to a "babe" is a bad idea. However tasty a gyro might be. Munch, munch.

hahaha

A person of any gender dressed up like a Troll would definitely draw my eye!

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:00 pm
by Rhuvein
Image

TrollCON VIII

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:07 pm
by Penny-Whistle
Rhuvein wrote:Image

TrollCON VIII

(((( mad applause ))))

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:22 am
by Lurker
Rigon wrote:Stop sucking at promotion. ;)

R-

You know, I've been thinking about that .... it sounds flipiant and off hand. However, my new job has FORCED me to stop sucking at things I suck at ....

I've always been horiable with net working & talking face to face 1 on 1 to people. Especialy when we are on different sides of a point and I'm trying to convince them I'm right.

I was good with being the subject matter expert on 3 or 4 things, briefing key points of teaching something. I was good at research and writing papers showing my points and how the other points were flawed, or at least more flawed than my point. Not those other things.

Then on top of it, now I stand in front of judges (or over a live video conference with a judge) and quoting case law and government regulations. I mean come on, I'm a back woods Okie that was dumb enough to make a living jumping out f planes and avoiding the Air Force despite wearing a blue uniform.

However, in my new job, all those skills are CRITICAL in helping other vets, so I HAVE to get good at them. Now I'm getting 5 or 6 guys that I can talk to (the net working part) and get their view on how to word things to say they are wrong & I am right in a way that they accept and at least meet me half way on. I still hate standing in front of the judge when I do, but I hide it well enough that the vet himself doesn't know it and is glad I'm there to help them. Plus, out of the 4 (or is it 5) times, I haven't been blown out of the water on any of them I had a chance with - one was a groundless appeal so you can't count that blood bath against me ....

Those other areas I was great in before, they are still critical and are a base for me to do well in the rest of the areas , so I still use them. However, now I have more tools in my toolbox .

So, I said all of that to say this .... force yourself to stop sucking at what ever you suck at and eventually you do stop sucking ... Use your strengths where you can (interviews instead of rambling videos etc etc etc) but make an over all improvement where you can't.


Oh yeah, troll con pics like those, DP (and spiced rum) floats help too!!

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:11 pm
by miller6
I'd say, to increase the C&C ground game, we need to take that phrase quite literally by offering cool Castles and Crusades T-Shirts. C&C needs more public visibility. People with eye-catching t-shirts are walking billboards... and hence traveling advertisements. This would help draw interest at conventions where the TLG booth is right there ready to sell C&C merchandise. Gen Con successfully took advantage of the "walking billboards" philosophy. Gary Con definitely does too. Did you see all the Gary Con shirts this year?

Running games isn't enough. Most people pass by gaming tables without ever knowing what game was being played at that table. Put eye-catching C&C t-shirts on everyone running C&C games at conventions and as many of the people playing in C&C games as possible. We want people to see an ocean of C&C shirts... making a gaming area look like it's C&C turf...as well as walking about conventions. What better way to make an impression at a single glance that C&C is a fore-runnier in RPG games. That's something I'd like to see.

And, heh, to be honest, after years of promoting C&C, I want a cool C&C shirt to go with all my Gary Con ones. :)

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:45 pm
by Treebore
miller6 wrote:I'd say, to increase the C&C ground game, we need to take that phrase quite literally by offering cool Castles and Crusades T-Shirts. C&C needs more public visibility. People with eye-catching t-shirts are walking billboards... and hence traveling advertisements. This would help draw interest at conventions where the TLG booth is right there ready to sell C&C merchandise. Gen Con successfully took advantage of the "walking billboards" philosophy. Gary Con definitely does too. Did you see all the Gary Con shirts this year?

Running games isn't enough. Most people pass by gaming tables without ever knowing what game was being played at that table. Put eye-catching C&C t-shirts on everyone running C&C games at conventions and as many of the people playing in C&C games as possible. We want people to see an ocean of C&C shirts... making a gaming area look like it's C&C turf...as well as walking about conventions. What better way to make an impression at a single glance that C&C is a fore-runnier in RPG games. That's something I'd like to see.

And, heh, to be honest, after years of promoting C&C, I want a cool C&C shirt to go with all my Gary Con ones. :)

I was wearing my T Shirt the first day, but I am not going to wear the same shirt for 4 days. So the Trolls need to send me at least 3 more shirts to wear at the conventions I go to. The next of which WILL be North Texas RPGCon. We are already deciding on what method of travel my wife and I will use to go there.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:47 pm
by maximus
miller6 wrote:I'd say, to increase the C&C ground game, we need to take that phrase quite literally by offering cool Castles and Crusades T-Shirts. C&C needs more public visibility. People with eye-catching t-shirts are walking billboards... and hence traveling advertisements. This would help draw interest at conventions where the TLG booth is right there ready to sell C&C merchandise. Gen Con successfully took advantage of the "walking billboards" philosophy. Gary Con definitely does too. Did you see all the Gary Con shirts this year?

Running games isn't enough. Most people pass by gaming tables without ever knowing what game was being played at that table. Put eye-catching C&C t-shirts on everyone running C&C games at conventions and as many of the people playing in C&C games as possible. We want people to see an ocean of C&C shirts... making a gaming area look like it's C&C turf...as well as walking about conventions. What better way to make an impression at a single glance that C&C is a fore-runnier in RPG games. That's something I'd like to see.

And, heh, to be honest, after years of promoting C&C, I want a cool C&C shirt to go with all my Gary Con ones. :)
Agreed! My vote is for a t-shirt with pg. 352 from the CKG on it.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:58 pm
by Treebore
maximus wrote:
Agreed! My vote is for a t-shirt with pg. 352 from the CKG on it.
:lol:

Well, at least you got me to open up the CKG for the first time in nearly a month!

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:11 pm
by maximus
Treebore wrote:
maximus wrote:
Agreed! My vote is for a t-shirt with pg. 352 from the CKG on it.
:lol:

Well, at least you got me to open up the CKG for the first time in nearly a month!
Nice!

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:09 pm
by miller6
The problem is that at a glance you can't really tell who is GMing at tables. You also can't tell without looking at character sheets or books what game was being played. We want players to know a C&C GM and table even from across a big room. If we had bright orange shirts like the volunteers had or some other florescent, highly visible, non-frequently worn color, we'd stand out from the crowd. And if they saw one at each table in the room, they'd know, this is a C&C room. A banner saying as much at the entrance would also help. And yes, Treebore, we'd need a shirt for each day or use of laundry facilities. lol. The point was to make them the same so our GMs clearly represent a united team of TLG representatives.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:18 pm
by Treebore
miller6 wrote:The problem is that at a glance you can't really tell who is GMing at tables. You also can't tell without looking at character sheets or books what game was being played. We want players to know a C&C GM and table even from across a big room. If we had bright orange shirts like the volunteers had or some other florescent, highly visible, non-frequently worn color, we'd stand out from the crowd. And if they saw one at each table in the room, they'd know, this is a C&C room. A banner saying as much at the entrance would also help. And yes, Treebore, we'd need a shirt for each day or use of laundry facilities. lol. The point was to make them the same so our GMs clearly represent a united team of TLG representatives.
I think that blue I was wearing the first day is the "loudest" color I want to be in. Its at least highly visible, and definitely not a commonly worn color. For CK shirts I'd just add a big "CK" under the emblem on the back, then another under the front emblem on our chest. Give them to anyone who runs 3 or more C&C games at a given convention.

Re: So Steve sucks at promoting TLG ...

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:38 am
by miller6
Was thinking a C&C shirt to identify our GMs... and possibly a C&C tournament hat to differentiate tourney GMs from non-tourney tables. Or something along those lines...