Some directions for a new C&C CK

[Lothdyn]

Hi everyone,

I'm sure this is a question that's come up before, so feel free to point me towards other posts / topics / forums.

I'm working on getting my head around SIEGE system. Ran my first game of C&C a week or so ago, and wasn't quite sure how to best approach siege checks. I'm a long time player, though very much a newbie DM. My head - skill check wise - is very much in the space of 3rd ed D&D.

I tried to take a general approach of just letting the players succeed unless something was on the line / something was around to oppose.

Thoughts and ideas? Appreciate the help.



Lothdyn

[Arduin]

I cannot stress enough taking the time to walk through (while creating examples) starting at pg. 162 "Resolution of Conflict" through pg. 168

[Rigon]

Hi everyone,

I'm sure this is a question that's come up before, so feel free to point me towards other posts / topics / forums.

I'm working on getting my head around SIEGE system. Ran my first game of C&C a week or so ago, and wasn't quite sure how to best approach siege checks. I'm a long time player, though very much a newbie DM. My head - skill check wise - is very much in the space of 3rd ed D&D.

I tried to take a general approach of just letting the players succeed unless something was on the line / something was around to oppose.

Thoughts and ideas? Appreciate the help.



Lothdyn

You're on the right track. The only time there should be a roll of any kind is if there is a chance for failure. You don't have to have rolls for everything.

R-

[Omote]

You don't have to have rolls for everything.

R-

A critical concept to learn coming from 3E over to C&C. You are on the right track. Don't make tests for everything, because C&C checks are a bit harder to make when compared to 3E. For example, say the fighter needs to push over a stone block for some reason. If the fighter is not stressed, or in the middle of a combat situation, and otherwise it's not a critical action during the campaign err on the side of no rolling. I mean he's a a fighter with a prime strength -- he can get the job done given the proper time and effort.

Again, if you make checks for everything, the players (particularly at low levels) will fail more often than not.

~O

[Jyrdan Fairblade]

I totally agree with your approach. There's no need to bog the game down with rolls for the sake of rolling. Unless there's something on the line (or, if I'm feeling capricious, if it would be really funny if the character failed/succeeded).

One thing I had to learn, or rather, unlearn, going from 3e to C&C, was that in 3e it seemed like there was always a rule for a situation, or a penalty for trying. One of the great things about C&C is that it all pretty much just boils down to "sure, you can try that, make a siege check."

[Treebore]

A good "rule" for running C&C is, "Is it going to add to the fun? Do it. Is it going to just slow things down for no good reason? Don't do it."

[pawndream]

Lothdyn,

Your approach to SIEGE checks is exactly how I handle it as well. PCs can usually accomplish mundane tasks just by saying they are attempting the action. I don't make them roll for that kind of stuff.

For example, during battle, but not while engaged with an opponent, a ranger decides he wants to climb a tree. The ranger will be able to do that, without rolling any dice. If he here being attacked at the time, I might call for a DEX check to see if he could break off from combat without being exposed to an attack, leap up to grab a nearby limb, and pull himself out of harm's way.

In my mind, C&C is meant to be played really fast and loose, with less emphasis on rolling dice. It is a very different approach than found in 3e, which has more codified rules for a wide variety of actions. SIEGE checks sort of equate to a Tough (DC15)/Challenging (DC20) or better check in 3e terms. Anything less than that level of difficulty, you assume the characters will be successful.

[serleran]

I would make a sanity check to see if I needed to then have the players roll.

[Ancalagon]

Greeting, Lothdyn. May your zombies remain intact.

And welcome to the CK side of the screens.

[Captain_K]

Before your first game practice with a player or two some simple stuff. Just do it to learn it and read as you go.

[Lothdyn]

Thanks for the pointers, suggestions and advice - particularly :

* Roll if it's relevant / dramatic / fun
* pg. 162 "Resolution of Conflict" through pg. 168
* practice with a player or two some simple stuff [effectively what we started doing]

[Captain_K]

One thing we did, with all new players too, was to have a simple, I mean simple, first encounter. An event that forced ability checks for all, saves for all, combat to hits for all. Things like that, very simple stuff. It made it easy for the players and myself as a new CK using the new CnC rules. A very structured, "first ride with training wheels".

But in the end, its a game, if you and your players are patient it will improve and flow with time.

[Lurker]

I would make a sanity check to see if I needed to then have the players roll.

Sadly, ..... I fail most of mine.

Lothdyn - welcome to the boards by the way -

To look at it from a player side of the table. (Luckily I play under 2 - no now 3 - great DMs) Like has been said before, don't roll for any and all things. However, don't hesitate to have a roll if it builds suspence, or a comedy factor, in the game.

2 great examples - Playing a knight/paladin for both - we were following some kidnapers through the sewer, if we were careful, we could take time to make a good easy jump and not worry about falling in. However, seeing movement in the shadows we had to decided if we would rush it (and require a jump). Being a hero type, the paladin couldn't let the others in the group jump over (they were dex prime and weren't worried about it) so I rushed the jump too, and .... failed miserably. Suspense and comedy factor of being a paladin/knight dripping sewage throughout the rest of the combat. It was to the point later on that I didn't even try to jump any more, just hop into the sludge trudge across and climb out on the other side (with everyone laughing each time too!)

Now a heroic example. The party was ambushed by hill giants that were behind a rock outcropping. It was to high to jump my horse over. However, I made a horsemanship check to leap out of the saddle at the end of the charge and land on top of the rocks (at eye level with the giants too). Made the check easy peasy, and it was a cool enough move that the DM gave me a bonus on the attack roll.

[Rigon]

I would make a sanity check to see if I needed to then have the players roll.

Sadly, ..... I fail most of mine.

Lothdyn - welcome to the boards by the way -

To look at it from a player side of the table. (Luckily I play under 2 - no now 3 - great DMs) Like has been said before, don't roll for any and all things. However, don't hesitate to have a roll if it builds suspence, or a comedy factor, in the game.

2 great examples - Playing a knight/paladin for both - we were following some kidnapers through the sewer, if we were careful, we could take time to make a good easy jump and not worry about falling in. However, seeing movement in the shadows we had to decided if we would rush it (and require a jump). Being a hero type, the paladin couldn't let the others in the group jump over (they were dex prime and weren't worried about it) so I rushed the jump too, and .... failed miserably. Suspense and comedy factor of being a paladin/knight dripping sewage throughout the rest of the combat. It was to the point later on that I didn't even try to jump any more, just hop into the sludge trudge across and climb out on the other side (with everyone laughing each time too!)

Now a heroic example. The party was ambushed by hill giants that were behind a rock outcropping. It was to high to jump my horse over. However, I made a horsemanship check to leap out of the saddle at the end of the charge and land on top of the rocks (at eye level with the giants too). Made the check easy peasy, and it was a cool enough move that the DM gave me a bonus on the attack roll.

Cool factor always gets a bonus.

R-

[Arduin]

Thanks for the pointers, suggestions and advice - particularly :

* Roll if it's relevant / dramatic / fun
* pg. 162 "Resolution of Conflict" through pg. 168
* practice with a player or two some simple stuff [effectively what we started doing]

You're welcome. Best of all; have fun!