I Just Don't Get It...

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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SmokestackJones
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I Just Don't Get It...

Post by SmokestackJones »

...why it is so hard to find C&C in my FLGS's around here.

A Rant.

I usually preorder from my FLGS due to keeping it on the down low here at home and a desire to support said FLGS. I have 3 games stores here in the OKC area and none of them carry C&C material. My main FLGS can't even order the complete line from their distributors (Alliance - I was looking for Codex Nordica and they didn't have it listed).

It's a good, solid game. It's a helluva lot easier to run/play than other editions (especially 3/3.5 and it's bastard child Pathfinder). THIS is the game that should have been what PF is. Yet I find it an uphill battle to get interest or find material in this area. I'd love to join the demo groups but around here any kind of demos fall on deaf ears (my FLGS wants me to actually have some people willing to play before they'll give me space to demo).

I had this same problem during the D20 era. Nothing's changed.

Rant over. Remove goggles.

-SJ

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Go0gleplex »

Don't feel bad mate. Same deal here in Oregon. You don't play WH40k or MtG you may as well just not be a gamer.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Rigon »

Email Tim your FLGS info. That way they can contact them and maybe work something out with them about getting books directly from the Trolls.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Arduin »

If the space is otherwise not being used in the store, the owner is very short sighted business wise.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by tylermo »

C&C is very simple to play, and it can be an uphill battle to convert players of other systems. I've had a lot of successes, but some failed attempts as well. Keep at it!

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by maximus »

Same here in Charlotte. I came across C&C by accident when looking to get back into gaming about 2 years ago. I looked at Pathfinder and liked some things about it, but too many rules for me. C&C strikes the right balance. Now if it was just available locally...

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Captain_K »

I have 5 new players to RPG, all 20 something with computer experience and two old DnDers who LOVE what CnC is... so I'm batting a 1000 here on the North Coast, but I've also not tried anything public nor have I ever asked the local gaming shops to buy anything, all direct.

Stuff on shelves costs money unless the Trolls sell on consignment and take stuff back that does not sell.

Public places like libraries have rooms you can use for free. Same for various local clubs. Try hosting your games there. Heck even a quite bar works too.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by ArgoForg »

Sadly, I don't get into FLGS's as often as I should-- there aren't any real close to me, and since I buy almost all my stuff online or at the cons, I just don't get out to them-- so I'm not entirely sure that we have local dealers here. I thought I remembered seeing a C&C PHB at the Game Preserve here locally, but most places I've been are stocked with the glut of Paizo and WOTC.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by pawndream »

SmokestackJones wrote:...why it is so hard to find C&C in my FLGS's around here.

A Rant.

I usually preorder from my FLGS due to keeping it on the down low here at home and a desire to support said FLGS. I have 3 games stores here in the OKC area and none of them carry C&C material. My main FLGS can't even order the complete line from their distributors (Alliance - I was looking for Codex Nordica and they didn't have it listed).

It's a good, solid game. It's a helluva lot easier to run/play than other editions (especially 3/3.5 and it's bastard child Pathfinder). THIS is the game that should have been what PF is. Yet I find it an uphill battle to get interest or find material in this area. I'd love to join the demo groups but around here any kind of demos fall on deaf ears (my FLGS wants me to actually have some people willing to play before they'll give me space to demo).

I had this same problem during the D20 era. Nothing's changed.

Rant over. Remove goggles.

-SJ
Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): C&C is a somewhat obscure game most gamers are unfamiliar with. Ask your FLGS if you can reserve a table, organize a One Shot game marketed as "Rules Lite D&D", advertise the game through Meet-Up and store bulletin boards (if available). Run a game and let people see how fun and easy to play C&C can be. Your store might be willing to order C&C product if they see it is something people actually play.

***

The longer version:

C&C is a somewhat obscure game outside of "OSR" circles, and even a niche within that subgenre. I can definitely see why an FLGS would not have C&C sitting on its shelves. It doesn't have the brand name recognition of the heavy-hitter fantasy RPGs and doesn't have an established organized play community. In other words, C&C products are not likely to fly off the shelves the way 5e or PF will, especially if it is not something that is played in the store.

The merits of C&C you listed are certainly valid, but doesn't change the bottom-line of a FLGS that might already be struggling to stay afloat and will probably be reluctant to purchase product that will end up sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

My FLGS didn't carry C&C either, but then I organized a One Shot C&C game and asked the FLGS if I could use their store to play. They agreed. I created a Meet-Up ad, advertising the game as Rules Lite D&D. Six players showed up to that game and ended up being a recurring game once they saw how easily the game played.

We've now been playing C&C in the store for about 10 months. Last time I checked, the FLGS had two C&C PHBs sitting on the shelf. They basically ordered the game because they saw it as something that is actively played in their store.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by BudaZoa »

It was that way here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of Texas where I live.

Until my friend Rob and I started a C&C revlotuion in the north Dallas area. Now we have C&C games all oover the dallas area and both of us have no problem filling our tables.

We started this revolution on the rpg "Meet Up" sites in our area three years ago and it has taken off on its own. This weekend I am introducing C&C to another group new to the system and I am sure they will be converted once they play it.

It is not easy to get people who are used to the power gaming of many of the newer systems out there. many players like the five attacks a round and hitting for 1K damage, or doing Tomb of Horrors as a solo adventure but if you target old school gamers or players completely new to rpg, you are likely to find some gold.


Good luck and keep the Crusade going !
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by serleran »

Consider yourself lucky if a game store still has its doors open, much less selling actual games. The one closest to me removed 90% of their games and now sell frisbees.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Arduin »

serleran wrote:Consider yourself lucky if a game store still has its doors open, much less selling actual games. The one closest to me removed 90% of their games and now sell frisbees.
Truth. The last time I lived near one was 15 years ago and it had just folded up after >20 years of activity. It had been the only one with gaming tables in a metro area of >2,000,000 people.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Captain_K »

OK, Let's think outside the "box', or outside the game store. If you play there, you take up space, pay no rent and MIGHT buy stuff if its cheap enough.. not a great business model and why most stores are closing up shop (possibly). Gaming there MIGHT help if you group is so dynamic it brings in others, makes them want to play, and they all buy books at that store not cheaper on the internet some place.... or when the trolls have a sale.

Now, if we're just trying to get CnC going anywhere, where else can it be played sort of publically that works? Schools? Library's places that are tax payer funded and do not need to make a living, but not bery lively places for most.

how about a bar or social club that you would need to buy drinks and food or a cover charge to get in?

Other thoughts?
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Treebore »

My face to face group is my kids and 4 of their friends, ages 19 to 24. Every once in a GREAT while a 5th friend shows up, but with her working two jobs, she might make it once very 6 weeks.

So if you have a local college, check out their Clubs, etc... and if you have actually attended classes there, you can even attend these clubs, and start one of your own with their approval.

Or if your like me, and have your own kids attending, get them to do it.
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Jyrdan Fairblade
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

My FLGS is always really good at getting C&C stuff in stock. Unfortunately, my gaming group has no interest in playing it (other than Litzen, that is).

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Treebore »

Jyrdan Fairblade wrote:My FLGS is always really good at getting C&C stuff in stock. Unfortunately, my gaming group has no interest in playing it (other than Litzen, that is).
I'm lucky in that if the people I game with want me to run the game, they are willing to play what I want to run. When they don't, we have enough other game masters to where one of us is willing to run something everyone is willing to play. So it works out to where we are always playing something everyone is willing to be playing.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Celticgamer »

As the author of the Codex Nordica and the others in the series, and now living in OKC, I can sell you the books! I have them all, and my modules too, plus many other C & C products. I have them here on me. So worry no longer! Due to me just finishing the extra matters on the Codex Classicum in the last few weeks/months and moving here, I haven't been able to be so active on here to notice your plight (sorry!).

Message me. I plan on running stuff now that I have a table, chairs and all and can finally. In a few months the three newest Codices, as you know, will all be out - Codex Germania, Codex Slavorum and Codex Classicum. That gives us FIVE now in the series and I plan on writing the 2nd edition of the Codex Celtarum, this being its final edition soon, then starting on the Codex Mesopotamia and Codex Aegypta.

So...in short, I am your local Troll Lord and supplier in OKC! Ron at Game HQ I have known for over 20 years and he is a great guy but he was sort of odd about the game when I asked him about me doing some signings or if there was much activity concerning it going on locally, etc there not long ago. He may change his tune if he can see the persistence about it.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by TheMetal1 »

Here in the D.C. area, there is at least one game store that sells C&C Stuff. Not really a C&C Evangelist, but it's the only game I'm running/playing right now. I've switched from face to face and started using Fantasy Grounds and have gotten a lot of people, globally, into C&C.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Itlas »

SmokestackJones wrote:...why it is so hard to find C&C in my FLGS's around here.

A Rant.

I usually preorder from my FLGS due to keeping it on the down low here at home and a desire to support said FLGS. I have 3 games stores here in the OKC area and none of them carry C&C material. My main FLGS can't even order the complete line from their distributors (Alliance - I was looking for Codex Nordica and they didn't have it listed).

It's a good, solid game. It's a helluva lot easier to run/play than other editions (especially 3/3.5 and it's bastard child Pathfinder). THIS is the game that should have been what PF is. Yet I find it an uphill battle to get interest or find material in this area. I'd love to join the demo groups but around here any kind of demos fall on deaf ears (my FLGS wants me to actually have some people willing to play before they'll give me space to demo).

I had this same problem during the D20 era. Nothing's changed.

Rant over. Remove goggles.

-SJ

Consider yourself lucky,here in Italy NOBODY knows C&C,Neither I since weeks ago,when I was looking for OSRIC games and I found it.
It's truly a pity it's not advertised very much because it's an awesome game and it's fully compatible with AD&D modules.
In my country there is a full Old School reinassance cause people is tired of WOTC pooping out new editions but I know C&C will never been translated in my country,so sad :(

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Arduin »

Itlas wrote: In my country there is a full Old School reinassance cause people is tired of WOTC pooping out new editions but I know C&C will never been translated in my country,so sad :(
Sounds like a business opportunity, for you. Contact the company and offer to help create Italiano PDFs in exchange for a % of the sales thereafter...
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Jyrdan Fairblade
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

Out of curiosity, have any of the OSR RPGs been translated into Italian?
Itlas wrote: Consider yourself lucky,here in Italy NOBODY knows C&C,Neither I since weeks ago,when I was looking for OSRIC games and I found it.
It's truly a pity it's not advertised very much because it's an awesome game and it's fully compatible with AD&D modules.
In my country there is a full Old School reinassance cause people is tired of WOTC pooping out new editions but I know C&C will never been translated in my country,so sad :(

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Itlas
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Itlas »

[quote="Jyrdan Fairblade"]Out of curiosity, have any of the OSR RPGs been translated into Italian?

Just Labyrinth Lords and La Marca dell'Este (a spanish D&D retroclone with its setting),but in Italy old players still own their D&D and AD&D books and new players prefer 3.5 or Pathfinder,so there is not much space for pure retroclones.
What I like of C&C is that is not a retroclone but a new system,easyest than the classic D&D and with more opportunities than Advanced,plus fully compatible with all the old settings,monster manuals and adventures.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Captain_K »

So get some friends and have a translation party. If each person takes 5 pages a week in a year you will have the PH which is all you need since the monsters of your old translation work... quit whining (in Italian) and fix the problem. They'll probably make you a national hero and carve a statue of you out of marble, make a fountain out of it and pigeons will shat on you for eternity.

Yeah its daunting, but it will keep you and your players busy. Assign each play a PC class to do that they want to play. You as the CK take the short section on rules you need in the back. Then spell casters do each spell level as they gain it - no new spells unless you translate. etc etc.

As my old boss used to say, "Treat it like a big pile of dirt that needs moving. One shovel at a time, it will eventually be done."
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Itlas
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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Itlas »

Captain_K wrote:So get some friends and have a translation party. If each person takes 5 pages a week in a year you will have the PH which is all you need since the monsters of your old translation work... quit whining (in Italian) and fix the problem. They'll probably make you a national hero and carve a statue of you out of marble, make a fountain out of it and pigeons will shat on you for eternity.

Yeah its daunting, but it will keep you and your players busy. Assign each play a PC class to do that they want to play. You as the CK take the short section on rules you need in the back. Then spell casters do each spell level as they gain it - no new spells unless you translate. etc etc.

As my old boss used to say, "Treat it like a big pile of dirt that needs moving. One shovel at a time, it will eventually be done."

I'm not whining,I'm just explaining the situation in my country,and actually C&C is so simple that doesn't need a translation to be played and most of my AD&D material is already in english while just a few things were translated in italian (basically of all the whole TSR production only the Core Rulebooks,Skills&Powers,Forgotten Realm setting's box,Ravenloft Domains of Dread,Van Richter's guide to Vampires,VRG to Werebeasts,Celestial Warriors,Guide to Hell and some random adventures were translated) so it's much better for me to keep the whole game in english.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by serleran »

Translate the art.

Some Italian masters might be interesting.

Although, my personal preference would be some High German Expressionism.

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Re: I Just Don't Get It...

Post by Captain_K »

I'm sorry, I was really not trying to be a pain nor be rude. I, like so many folks here in the US, get used to English first... what I suggest is a BIG undertaking, but it could be fun AND I'm sure you would be Knighted for such a task, seriously, by the CnC knight's guild. Such a task to translate a book well is a BIG deal. Do it on line, at a site you can all share like a translation wiki. Might be issues with hosting the text but for this task you might get troll permission.

You should consider it.
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