Set against a charge

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jdizzy001
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Set against a charge

Post by jdizzy001 »

What does it mean to set against a charge? I know what and how a pc charges, but I don't understand what it means on the long spear entry when it says "…set against a charge."

Also, If I am using a polearm (weapons marked as being 10'+ in length) can I attack foes adjacent to me?

Lastly, I would like some opinions, is charging worth it? In 4e charging was great. +1 to atk, no dmg bonus and no ac penalty. There are a lot of variables in cnc's charges. Is it even worth doing?
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Treebore »

C&C charges give you a negative to AC and a bonus to Damage, it is done pretty frequently by me, and when I CK, my players.

"Setting for a charge" means they plant the butt of their pole arm in the ground, and point the tip at the oncoming, charging, target.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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seskis281
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by seskis281 »

The battle of Stirling scene in Braveheart (while not historically accurate) does give a good image of polearms being "set against the charge"
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serleran
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by serleran »

In a surprise situation, which is the optimal time to charge, it is very worthwhile. After that, you need to hope that you will hit and hit hard.

Or, you wait until the enemy has performed their action and then charge them, hoping you get initiative.

Either way, I personally use it a lot. My players... not so much.

No one (not even me) ever bothers with a pole arm. I should, though, just because they are silly.

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Lurker »

serleran wrote:In a surprise situation, which is the optimal time to charge, it is very worthwhile. After that, you need to hope that you will hit and hit hard.

Or, you wait until the enemy has performed their action and then charge them, hoping you get initiative.

Either way, I personally use it a lot. My players... not so much.

No one (not even me) ever bothers with a pole arm. I should, though, just because they are silly.

That reminds me of 2 battles I read about. One the Greeks formed up and marched towards the enemy, then right when they got within the enemy's bow range sprinted forward. This got them in under the bow fire and still in good order and then they brought the charge home and crushed into them.

A second, (Rome I think) 2 lines formed up and moved toward each other. One line charged forward and the enemy braced for the impact. However, the Roman line halted early and reformed, the enemy broke their brace and was confused (a charge not charging home wasn't what the expected) Then the Romans now reset charged home into the surprised enemy and won.

I know I should be more accurate and specific, but... teaching for 9 1/2 hours kind of smokes my brain ...

Now back to gaming ... Back in the day, when I played a cavalier I loved the charge ! On the other side, when I played a fighter or ranger, I always had a spear or pole arm and loved to set to receive a charge ... But like Serl pointed out, timing is everything!

Oh yeah, I don't know if it was a house rule that the DM made or what, but a PC/NPC set for a charge tens to be a setting duck for bow fire (unless behind a shield wall) ...
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mmbutter
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by mmbutter »

serleran wrote:No one (not even me) ever bothers with a pole arm. I should, though, just because they are silly.
They are useful in some situations - if you have several people blocking a narrow, you can have a second line of defenders hitting attackers with polearms over their head or between the bodies. This is one of the historical uses for them.

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Treebore »

I use pole arms all the time, and have the others in my "play" group use them all the time, but that is because we do a LOT of dungeon crawling, and need to do two rows of attackers quite often.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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Arduin
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Arduin »

At Waterloo the French Cuirassiers couldn't break through against the British squares with men armed with bayonets on their Brown Bess'. They were set against the charge to great effect.
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by alcyone »

In my game, "Set against a charge" specifically means a mounted charge, such as someone bearing down on you with a lance from a horse trained to ignore pesky things like planted spears. A PC's charge, which is just a fast close to melee distance, already gives an AC penalty.

Charging on foot, you aren't really going fast enough with so much inertia you must commit to being impaled to get your attack in.
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Captain_K
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Captain_K »

I agree with Aergraith, I thought charge was on some galloping beast, a person on foot charging did not seem the same.. but I see both sides.. finally pole arms are so much fun how could you not have two or three on hand, make great tent poles in a pinch, can't do that with a sword ;}

But not a one in my current group.. odd, might have to address that.. I forgot about the how to attack from the second row.. seems almost as dangerous as shooting into melee with a bow.. do you who allow second row pole arms in a hallway fight allow fumbles or 2 or 3 to partially damage those they are fighting through???
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Lurker »

I would argue for allowing a charge to be foot based also (giving extra damage etc, but also in danger a being skewerd by a set pole arm)

I could use foot ball as an example, but this is even better ...

Last night at soccer practice, my younger daughter (she just turned 6 & is 45ish lbs soaking wet) was head down sprinting for the ball (I'd told her to stop sandbagging after the last play, and to show all the older bigger girls on her team just how fast a half fry flea of a girl can run) However, with her head down she wasn't paying attention to where she was going. Unfortunately, the teen age girls team just finished practice on the next field over and 2 girls were cutting across the field we were on and turned flirting with boys that had been watching them practice.

My daughter (again all 45lbs of her) plowed into them full charge and leveled them flat! After my girl got up and shaking her head & I saw she wasn't hurt, I couldn't stop laughing! She got a good job, way to give it your all, but next time watch where you are going! - the teens kind of got up brushed themselves off and slunked away embarrassed in front of their flirties (God help me when my girls are that age...)

Now if a little flea of a girl in bright florescent shorts and a muddy shirt, and socks that are long enough to pull up to her chin can flatten 2 people 2 - 3 times her size, just think what a armed and armored warrior could do.

Conversely, to do that damage, she had to be head down giving it her all, so she couldn't have dodged or change direction the least. Also, if the teens had been braced and ready for the hit, instead of flirting with some Okie farm boys, she would have bounced off of them proving a basic rule or three of physics.
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serleran
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by serleran »

Technically, setting against a charge is implied to be for use against a mounted foe but the Castle Keeper can certainly rule that any sufficiently fast moving, large, or both oncoming obstacle could qualify such as a giant doing a bull rush against your planted halberd. And, those in Tejas and Florida should be well aware of the "stand your ground" clauses of the rules. ;)

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by jdizzy001 »

So how does one set against a charge? Is it an interrupt action or what? I dont know how it works in a turn based game. I get one action, i set to receive, and my opponent chooses to do something else, or charge someone Not set to receive them. Thus, i've wasted my turn. I dont get how it mechanically works.
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mmbutter
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by mmbutter »

jdizzy001 wrote:So how does one set against a charge? Is it an interrupt action or what?
Per the RAW, the player declares they are setting against a charge *before initiative is rolled for a round*. They are then committed to that action for that round.

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by dachda »

mmbutter wrote:
jdizzy001 wrote:So how does one set against a charge? Is it an interrupt action or what?
Per the RAW, the player declares they are setting against a charge *before initiative is rolled for a round*. They are then committed to that action for that round.
So who has to state what he is doing first? If one party says before initiative they will charge, then the second party hearing that can say I'll set against a charge. If one party says I'll set against charge, the second party having heard that can simply decide not to charge and state some other action, and the first has essentially wasted his round.

Seems a stand vs charge should be allowed after initiative is called. Dropping the butt of your polearm to the ground is an easy and quick action. And a charge must begin a certain distance away from the intended victim. that would seem more than enough time to allow a pole arm carrying fighter to switch to a stand vs charge.

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by mmbutter »

dachda wrote:Dropping the butt of your polearm to the ground is an easy and quick action. And a charge must begin a certain distance away from the intended victim. that would seem more than enough time to allow a pole arm carrying fighter to switch to a stand vs charge.
Setting against a charge is more than just dropping the butt of your weapon to the ground. If that's all you did, the butt would just slide between your hands as your opponent hit it. Setting against a charge involves making a small hole (with your heel), setting the butt into that hole, and then covering the end back up with the dirt, tamping it down, and then keeping one foot on the covering so it doesn't just pop back out. At a minimum, you would have to brace it against something, like a stair or a wall or even just your foot. Just putting the end on the ground doesn't give you any advantage.

Normally this move is only done against cavalry, who are going to be charging infantry in almost all cases, anyway. As GM, I would allow the person to use their polearm as a normal attack if they are not charged against before the end of the round, but they would (obviously) lose the automatic initiative that they normally get from having a polearm. So, the choice really boils down to 1) use polearm like normal, get automatic initiative, do normal damage or 2) call "receiving charge" before initiative is rolled, lose initiative for that round, get double damage if you are charged, normal damage if you are not (but you go last if you are not charged). When you are charged after having called "receiving charge", you get an automatic "to hit" roll at -4 to AC for the attacker *before* the charging attacker gets to roll his attack, and you do double damage if you hit. If they survive that, then they can attack you, with their bonuses. A miss *might* hit the mount if you are charged by cavalry - roll like a miss for a ranged attack.

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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Arduin »

dachda wrote:
mmbutter wrote:
jdizzy001 wrote:So how does one set against a charge? Is it an interrupt action or what?
Per the RAW, the player declares they are setting against a charge *before initiative is rolled for a round*. They are then committed to that action for that round.
So who has to state what he is doing first? If one party says before initiative they will charge, then the second party hearing that can say I'll set against a charge. If one party says I'll set against charge, the second party having heard that can simply decide not to charge and state some other action, and the first has essentially wasted his round.

Seems a stand vs charge should be allowed after initiative is called. Dropping the butt of your polearm to the ground is an easy and quick action. And a charge must begin a certain distance away from the intended victim. that would seem more than enough time to allow a pole arm carrying fighter to switch to a stand vs charge.
In most situations where you are setting against mounted foes, you can see that they are readying for a charge more than 10 seconds (1 combat round) ahead of time. It is incumbent upon the GM to paint a correct & informative "picture" for the PC's.
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Fiffergrund »

Set vs. charge + grease spell.

Enjoy
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Re: Set against a charge

Post by Lurker »

Fiffergrund wrote:Set vs. charge + grease spell.

Enjoy

:shock: :o :lol:

I just got a nasty evil mental picture!


Hmmmmmm, what if the MU 'greased' the shaft of the pike ....
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