What Weapon is Best

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alcyone
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What Weapon is Best

Post by alcyone »

If you are doing pre-gens, or some player asks, the best weapons by damage would be:

Free weapons, spend your money on armor:
Melee: Club
Ranged: Sling

Two-Handed: Bearded Axe
One-Handed: Piercing Axe (but if you want to drop the shield sometimes, Bastard Sword)

Ranged: Heavy Crossbow

Fighter, Ranger, Assassin, Barbarian, Knight, Paladin: one of the above weapons
Rogue: Sleeve Tangler (but can't back attack, so also get a club. You can use a Mace, so if you can also use a Large Mace, get that instead of the club)
Monk: 9 Ring Broadsword
Wizard, Illusionist: Club
Cleric: Heavy Flail
Druid: You can use a Scimitar, so if you can use a Great Scimitar, get that, otherwise get a bastard sword or a two-handed sword.
Bard: A Great Scimitar or a Longspear

Note the fighter has more to think about: if you buy a starting weapon and want it to be your specialty, it might be best if it is common (e.g. normal sword) as you are more likely to find more of those in magical treasure hoards. But we don't metagame, do we?
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Arduin
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Arduin »

Aergraith wrote:If you are doing pre-gens, or some player asks, the best weapons by damage would be:
I'd tell the player to create a character and decide weapon by what the PC is. Not by min/maxing 8-)
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alcyone
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by alcyone »

Oh, we are only talking about maxing here. Minning is for losers.
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Gundoggy
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Gundoggy »

One thing I really liked about one of Gygax's later games (I believe Lejendary adventures) was that all weapons could do the same amount of maximum damage, but some bigger weapons had a higher minimum damage. This allows a dagger to be lethal, but your chances of really damaging someone more reliably would go up if let's say you used a 4' long blade. I think in his game the maximum damage was 20 pts.

I've considered using a modified version in C&C.

For instance: increase current 1d4 weapons to 1d8. Increase current 1d6 and 1d8 weapons to 1d6+2, 1d10 weapons to 1d8+2, 2d6 weapons to 1d10+2

This would support the concept of a very skilled knife fighter or assassin wielding a dagger.

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Arduin
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Arduin »

Gundoggy wrote: For instance: increase current 1d4 weapons to 1d8. Increase current 1d6 and 1d8 weapons to 1d6+2, 1d10 weapons to 1d8+2, 2d6 weapons to 1d10+2

This would support the concept of a very skilled knife fighter or assassin wielding a dagger.
For a normal person in C&C, all those weapons 1D4, et al, can be lethal. The average human in C&C having just 3-4 H.P.
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Lord Dynel
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Lord Dynel »

If I'm recalling correctly, Rolemaster used a system where your skill in attacking with the weapon (along with the defender's ineptitude at defending) determined the effects of the hit. That would be an interesting system to use but it would, no doubt like RM itself, involve a lot of charts and tables.

But yeah, Aergraith, that table is pretty much comprehensive for maximum damage output by weapon, by class.
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Shadowslayer »

Not sure what your scenario is with the pre gens, but if I'm doing them I tend to give pregens something middle-of-the-road. Better than a pointed stick but not as outlandish as some of the more exotic stuff. (Shortsword, shortbow etc)

Because the idea of finding better weapons and armor can be a motivator too.

As to the above comment about going by what the character "is", is a good way to get a blank look from some guys. Better to let them max the crap out of their character and get it out of their system. (There's only so much of that you can do with CnC anyway)

The game can handle it. Nothing wrong with wanting to kick some ass.

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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by alcyone »

Really, the highest damage output would be the heavy lance, but its use is very situational, and its foe, the set spear, is a risky thing.
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by alcyone »

Shadowslayer wrote:Not sure what your scenario is with the pre gens, but if I'm doing them I tend to give pregens something middle-of-the-road. Better than a pointed stick but not as outlandish as some of the more exotic stuff. (Shortsword, shortbow etc)

Because the idea of finding better weapons and armor can be a motivator too.

As to the above comment about going by what the character "is", is a good way to get a blank look from some guys. Better to let them max the crap out of their character and get it out of their system. (There's only so much of that you can do with CnC anyway)

The game can handle it. Nothing wrong with wanting to kick some ass.
I don't think the above items are too exotic for those classes, except for the sleeve tangler, but really, the reason I mentioned pre-gens is if you have several it will short circuit them comparing them on at least the weapon criterion, they know out of the box they have a weapon that will work until they ditch it for the first expert or +1 item they find.

And yeah, there's only so much you can do in C&C. You can't do all the work up front, planning 20 levels of careful layers of feats, skills, class levels, prestige class levels, items, cherry picked class abilities, and spells so you end up with 5 unbeatable combos you can use over and over for your whole career.
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Arduin
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Arduin »

Shadowslayer wrote: As to the above comment about going by what the character "is", is a good way to get a blank look from some guys.
So true. Those are the ones I leave to the video games...
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Shadowslayer
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Shadowslayer »

I recall guys in my group obsessing over lowering their AC and heightening their damage output back in the 1e days before anyone ever heard of a computer RPG...so I'm not sure how the "character optomization = video games" thing comes into it.

Besides, RP means making decisions for your character based on how that character "is". So if one of my players is RPing a warrior who wants to lay down some serious smack, then its reasonable to want to have the weapon you can lay the most smack with. And damage dice are really the only way to quantify it when you're playing...you know...a game. So its perfectly valid RP.

Of course, maybe only perfectly valid if speaking in a bad mock accent while purchasing the weapon from the shopkeep?

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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Treebore »

I do like how if you want to lay down the real serious smack, such as with the Bearded Axe and other two handed weapons, and the Pole Arms, you do have to give up the Shield. Giving up a +1 to AC, +2 if you use CKG advantages, and potentially 5 more points of AC down the road (if a +5 Shield ever becomes available) is a pretty serious consideration.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Arduin
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Arduin »

Treebore wrote:I do like how if you want to lay down the real serious smack, such as with the Bearded Axe and other two handed weapons, and the Pole Arms, you do have to give up the Shield. Giving up a +1 to AC, +2 if you use CKG advantages, and potentially 5 more points of AC down the road (if a +5 Shield ever becomes available) is a pretty serious consideration.
Not to mention if you end up fighting underground in cramped quarters. That two handed sword or pole arm can become almost useless.
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Treebore »

Arduin wrote:
Treebore wrote:I do like how if you want to lay down the real serious smack, such as with the Bearded Axe and other two handed weapons, and the Pole Arms, you do have to give up the Shield. Giving up a +1 to AC, +2 if you use CKG advantages, and potentially 5 more points of AC down the road (if a +5 Shield ever becomes available) is a pretty serious consideration.
Not to mention if you end up fighting underground in cramped quarters. That two handed sword or pole arm can become almost useless.
That too!
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Relaxo
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Relaxo »

It's the Gutentag.
Close thread.

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Arduin
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Arduin »

Relaxo wrote:It's the Gutentag.
Close thread.

:D
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Re: What Weapon is Best

Post by Lurker »

Arduin wrote:
Relaxo wrote:It's the Gutentag.
Close thread.

:D
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