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Merging C&C and GUMSHOE 
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Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:41 am
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
Greetings, fellow Crusaders,

Has anyone thought about, or tried to implement, a mashup of C&C and GUMSHOE in the same manner that was done with Pathfinder to create Lorefinder? I think this could really work out. Anyone have any thoughts? Are there supplemental rules in Amazing Adventures that would work just as well as GUMSHOE (I haven't looked at AA that deeply.)


Wed May 21, 2014 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
I haven't tried it, but certainly since Pathfinder linked to Gumshoe pretty well I'd think that C&C wouldn't be any harder. One could probably start with Lorefinder and swap out Pathfinder elements for C&C.

Marv / Finarvyn
Lord Marshall, Earl of Stone Creek, C&C Society
Just discovered Amazing Adventures and loving it!
MA1E WardenMaster - Killing Characters since 1976, MA4E Playtester in 2006.
C&C Playtester in 2003, OD&D player since 1975

Sun May 25, 2014 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
Moved to The Rules so others, with more experience with Gumshoe can respond. I know nothing about that system but C&C, in general, is easy to use with most everything... once you break things into Prime/not-Prime.

Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:38 pm
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:00 am
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Post Re: Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
The initial problem you might run into is that C&C doesn't have a skill system (or at least a skill system used universally across classes). One option might be to add such a system, which would be easy but could infringe on the territory of the flexible and rules-light SIEGE system. The other option seems to be adding the spirit of the Gumshoe system to C&C without trying to duplicate how it actually functions in other Gumshoe games.

The spirit of Gumshoe is essentially that each player has a different loop of keys and, for each critical moment in the investigation, one of those keys on one of those keychains will unlock the door to the next clue. There is never, ever a situation where the players will encounter such an obstacle and not have the right "key" somewhere amongst them. The player merely has to say "I am going to use my skill at History (Ancient) to decipher the mosaic on the wall." If no one figures out to declare this, the referee will even say "does anyone have History (Ancient)...?" Failure is never an option for discovering necessary, essential clues.

While there is no skill system in C&C, characters are differentiated by three main things: race, class and primes. By simplifying how the Gumshoe system is applied, I think you could make a fair case to determine investigation proceedings with any of these three values. The Castle Keeper would just have to remember his player characters' specifics when building his investigative adventure. Examples where auto-success would apply:

Strength Prime: "You see a tattered note, stuck under a fallen column..."
Monk Class: "Whoever paralyzed these guards could only have been using the Indomitable Fist technique, unknown in any land save the Blazing Islands, and it must have been in the past half hour or less..."
Elf Race: "To anyone else, the silk strip laid across the corpse would be meaningless, but you know it to have particular relevance in ancient Elvish custom..."

With the exception of primes and the addition of earlier professions prior to one's life of adventure, this is basically how games like Barbarians of Lemuria handled tests against one's proficiencies (in the absence of a fixed list of skills).

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:11 am

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:10 pm
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Post Re: Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
didnt tried it is it good shall i go for it

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:14 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:44 pm
Posts: 19
Post Re: Merging C&C and GUMSHOE
At its core the GUMSHOE "system" is a solution to one problem: stalled investigations. Call of Cthulhu, or [insert d20 game here] games usually involve skill checks or whatever, essentially pinning onto a die roll whether the investigation continues or stops dead in its tracks. We all know how die rolls can turn out. So in GUMSHOE games, the characters will absolutely find the clues they need for the investigation to continue utilizing some different mechanics. It's how the characters (and their players) interpret those clues that then determine the course of the investigation, and the adventure.

I'd suggest reading the GUMSHOE 101 PDF.

I kinda like where @Galadrin's head is at there, utilizing the SIEGE engine itself to handle things since C&C doesn't have a skill system (unless the CK is using the Secondary Skills rules from the CKG).

There's also the Three Clue Rule which doesn't involve homebrewing any rules and generally is at least a good idea to think about when designing investigations.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:36 pm
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