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Too tough?

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:22 pm
by Buttmonkey
I'm working on a new adventure for my home campaign. The party includes a level 2 barbarian PC, 1st level PCs, a level 2 cleric NPC, and a level 2 monk NPC. I'm likely to only have two PCs including the barbarian plus the NPCs at the next session. I'm thinking of throwing some 1 HD frogmen, some troglodytes, and a couple salamanders (5 HD) at the party. I'm afraid the salamanders might be too tough. Any thoughts?

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:31 pm
by Arduin
Buttmonkey wrote:I'm thinking of throwing some 1 HD frogmen, some troglodytes, and a couple salamanders (5 HD) at the party. I'm afraid the salamanders might be too tough. Any thoughts?
Could be a problem. Depends on how good the players are and what equip & spells are available.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:34 pm
by Treebore
As long as you only throw it at them, and their HD are a total of 5 HD or more, it should go fine.You may want to give it less than 25 HP too. Use it along with some of the other monsters, it may turn out deadlier than you would like, unless the dice love the party and hate you. But the basic rule of thumb, excluding any powerful extra abilities, such as spell casting and breath weapons, is as long as the HD of the monsters equals the HD of the party, it should be "fair", again depending on how the dice rolls go.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:55 am
by Relaxo
If a couple is too tough, how about one?

Don't forget, they're allowed to run away. and poof! instant nemesis! hooray!

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:18 am
by Shadowslayer
Relaxo wrote: Don't forget, they're allowed to run away. and poof! instant nemesis! hooray!
Only problem with that is that, in my experience, is that by the time they figure out they should run, its too late.

A Salamander is hit on a 19. A second level fighter probably has to roll a natural 14 (or thereabouts) to hit him. That's up there for low level PCs, and the tail slap/constrict/heat combo could waste one of these guys inside of 1 unlucky round.

I'm just spitballing here, but I'd probably wait on the Salamanders. Either that or use one, but don't give them both barrels, if you get my meaning. A young one with a couple HD knocked off might be fun too.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:23 pm
by Buttmonkey
Shadowslayer wrote:
Relaxo wrote: Don't forget, they're allowed to run away. and poof! instant nemesis! hooray!
Only problem with that is that, in my experience, is that by the time they figure out they should run, its too late.

A Salamander is hit on a 19. A second level fighter probably has to roll a natural 14 (or thereabouts) to hit him. That's up there for low level PCs, and the tail slap/constrict/heat combo could waste one of these guys inside of 1 unlucky round.

I'm just spitballing here, but I'd probably wait on the Salamanders. Either that or use one, but don't give them both barrels, if you get my meaning. A young one with a couple HD knocked off might be fun too.
Or a couple young ones with somewhat reduced stats. :!:

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:30 pm
by alcyone
I was going to say, way back in the day, we made Morale checks and combats were more survivable. But the Salamander would have a base morale of 87%, so maybe not.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:30 pm
by Buttmonkey
Aergraith wrote:I was going to say, way back in the day, we made Morale checks and combats were more survivable. But the Salamander would have a base morale of 87%, so maybe not.
Huh? I didn't think there are morale rules in C&C. Are you working off 1E or something for that percentage?

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:31 pm
by Arduin
Buttmonkey wrote:
Aergraith wrote:I was going to say, way back in the day, we made Morale checks and combats were more survivable. But the Salamander would have a base morale of 87%, so maybe not.
Huh? I didn't think there are morale rules in C&C. Are you working off 1E or something for that percentage?

Even in !E Gary said for the DM to rely on common sense rather than use morale dice rolls.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:35 pm
by alcyone
Buttmonkey wrote:
Aergraith wrote:I was going to say, way back in the day, we made Morale checks and combats were more survivable. But the Salamander would have a base morale of 87%, so maybe not.
Huh? I didn't think there are morale rules in C&C. Are you working off 1E or something for that percentage?
Yes, was looking in 1e.

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:41 pm
by Relaxo
Shadowslayer wrote: Only problem with that is that, in my experience, is that by the time they figure out they should run, its too late.
Yeah, that's always true. Myself included! :lol:

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:57 pm
by Pat Payne
Relaxo wrote:
Shadowslayer wrote: Only problem with that is that, in my experience, is that by the time they figure out they should run, its too late.
Yeah, that's always true. Myself included! :lol:
Then, there are those who never figure it out, even when they have clues dumped on their head like anvils... I can remember a paladin in one of my campaigns, who got knocked down to negatives by an encounter intended for the entire party (they decided to split into two groups to do a pincer-style movement on their goal), got healed up by the party druid, and then needed to be clobbered by said druid and tied to his bear animal companion to prevent him from going all Leeroy Jenkins a second time... :lol:

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:29 pm
by Captain_K
If the bad guys win, have the PC "wake up" as prisoners, not everyone kills their enemies especially if you drop PC at 0 to -10 without going beyond.... I assume the frogs and trogs are not in the same group as the fire base salamanders... with an Int of only better than average.. let your thief and mage be "smarter" and thus notice (if the PCs can't just figure it out) a way to escape, a way to get their stuff back, etc. prior to heat stroke. assuming the CC salamander is as the old MM version "no one knows why these elemental fire creatures come to our plane..", well then you could let your group find out.. you know something evil like forcing them to endure the comfy chair or listen to them sing or be hosts to their eggs or etc..

Re: Too tough?

Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:04 pm
by Buttmonkey
The salamander(s) is/are being worshipped by the frogmen. The trogs are the unfortunate slaves of the frogmen. Individually, the trogs are tougher than the frogmen, but they are less intelligent and seriously outnumbered. There's another fire-based monster in M&T whose name I can't remember that is also thrown into the mix. It's a nasty little creature that is so hot it can burrow through rock. It balls up when enemies approach and then explodes at them when they get too near. That thing is basically a pet/guard monster for the salamander(s).