Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

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timburns
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Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by timburns »

The final tally for the Book of Familiars Pre-order is $4,603. We came up a little short of the $5,000 we needed to do it in hardback. But we are Trolls and we are going to doing it anyway! It's too good a book to not hammer it into the shape it deserves. So once it is ready, all those who ordered will be getting hardback copies. Trollzah! Thanks to all of you who pre-ordered and we will be updating you with info about when it will be ready for shipping.

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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by Treebore »

Sweet! Thanks guys!
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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dachda
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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by dachda »

Treebore wrote:Sweet! Thanks guys!
Yes. Thanks!

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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by redwullf »

I try not to be too much of a complainer, but I feel this needs to be said.

Back when Book of Familiars was first announced, I was very excited about it. It sounded like a great project which would provide some really fun and interesting options for all classes and players.

When Book of Familiars went into pre-order, however, I started to feel a bit...objectionable...to supporting it. Some of this objection isn't the fault of the Troll Lord's - they stem specifically from really bad Kickstarter experiences with New Haven Games (Myth & Magic) and pre-order experience with Brave Halfling Publishing (Delving Deeper).

For the record, I have nothing but respect for John Adamns and I love BHP's products - but the the Delving Deeper project was a debacle.

My issue with the Trolls, unfortunately, stems from Codex of Aihrde pre-order. I participated in this pre-order on May 23, 2012 - nearly 19 MONTHS ago. I know there have been updates and explanations, trust me. But, I find it unpalatable to participate in a new pre-order when outstanding pre-orders have been delayed for so long, and are still outstanding. I've watched other projects come and go (Amazing Adventures, Rune Lore - which I actually participated in, etc.) and the stream continues, but the project I've been eagerly waiting for for over a year and a half doesn't seem to be anywhere near completion.

That's a specific reason, and I think it's worth mentioning that we put a tremendous amount of faith and trust in our beloved publishers to give them out hard-earned money in hopes that, in return, we get a great gaming product. With the Aihrde delay, and with my other pre-order and Kickstarter experiences, I've become (unfortunately) a strong opponent of the whole pre-order/crowdsourcing trend that seems to have dominated our beloved hobby. I long for the days when our favorite publishers produced excellent work before asking us to hand over our cash. Now we're regularly being asked to entrust them with our money before there is a product, and that feels too much like gambling and not enough like "being an RPG consumer."

I know the Trolls will come through on their pre-orders, but I also know that the delays are unreasonable. Why are there things appearing later in the pipeline and coming out sooner than things we pre-ordered long ago? It doesn't seem fair to those of us that have forked over cash and have been waiting patiently.

I'm sure I'll regret not getting the Book of Familiars - it sounds like a fantastic product. But, I have to stand on principle, I'm afraid, as someone that feels our relationship with publishers has become more like gambling shareholders than dependable and supportive gamers and consumers.
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Treebore
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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by Treebore »

I hear you. I myself know that the Trolls take a long time with anything, and when it relies primarily on Steve or Davis, it takes forever. So I am not all that surprised with how Aihrde is going. On the bright side I have liked the changes Steve has made, with the material he has provided, etc... but hey, Steve is THE guy that makes TLG operate day to day, and I know he has to give top priority to that, so understand why his projects are always so late. Which is why the others have gone so fast. That is all stuff others wrote, and that Steve was able to farm out the lions share of work on. He can't do that with Aihrde.

Bottom line for me is that I trust Steve, and that I believe he will deliver when he can. So I live with it. As for other KS's, all I can say there is, I've been lucky as hell, everyone has delivered for me, even when not on time, within a reasonable amount of time afterwards, with plenty of pictures and explanations as to why. So I've been happy with my experiences, because I got what I paid for. Obviously a bit of luck has played into it for me, but by and large I have only supported, with two exceptions, people with a proven record of providing product they promise, even if its going to be over 19 months later. Sure, I'd prefer the stuff sooner rather than later, but as long as I get what I paid for, I am happy. With the Trolls, I expect them to be late, never on time. So they never disappoint me.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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redwullf
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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by redwullf »

You've been fortunate, Tree. I haven't been as lucky.

And, again, I have to emphasize that this isn't a shot purely at the Trolls - the whole pre-order/crowdsourcing thing has become the industry standard, it seems - where "industry" is in reference to "small RPG publishers." I don't think we'll see WotC asking us for Kickstarter support to put D&D5 out (then again...)

My frustration is that it now seems like we can't get "great RPG products" anymore unless we participate in a high-energy, circus-like funds-gathering campaign. When some (and certainly not most) of those campaigns fail, we're left without our money and a sour taste in our mouth. Given the fact that some campaigns DO fail, why should we be asked to gamble just to be able to get our hands on great deals and products?

Consider that, as consumers, we're not typically asked to purchase products that way. Could you imagine what it would be like if you had to "pre-order" your groceries at the store and 1 time in a 100 you don't get anything that you ordered?! And perhaps 25 times in a 100 your groceries are very, very late in getting to you? My point is that this "system" would be unacceptable in just about any other consumer/vendor context.

Anyway, the whole thing makes me feel "meh" - I wish it were different. Long story short, until I have "proof of life" for Aihrde, I can't support any other pre-orders for TLG, even though I know I'm probably just hurting myself.
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Buttmonkey
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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by Buttmonkey »

You always have the option of waiting until a product is actually released and paying full retail.
tylermo wrote:Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Buttmonkey. Can't believe I said that with a straight face.

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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by Treebore »

Buttmonkey wrote:You always have the option of waiting until a product is actually released and paying full retail.
Yep, which is what he will do with this book.

As for Kickstarter, and similar "fund raising", technically we are actually investors, and I am happy to say the legal system has backed that up in recent weeks. Especially since I have been known to say that we are investors since KS first started up.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Re: Book of Familiars Preorder concluded

Post by Relaxo »

Wulf, while you make valid points, one key thing here is that this is TLG with a proven record of success and not Joe Schmoe's first project.

So, projects from say, Gamecrafter, Tasty Minstrel or Monte Cook should be fine, while the random guy projects can be more challenging.
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