Tertiary Attributes

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Lobo316
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Tertiary Attributes

Post by Lobo316 »

Pages 230/231 of the CKG have rules for adding a tertiary attaribute to the game. Is anyone doing this? If so, how has it affected the game balance or challenge level for the PCs?

PeelSeel2
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by PeelSeel2 »

I have been playing with Tertiary since the beginning (before CKG). Each PC gets 2 primes, 2 secondaries, and 2 tertiary. 12/15/18. Humans get 3 primes, 2 secondaries, and 1 tertiary. Works awesome!!

In my campaign I have gone with 12/14/16, however.

I am not familiar with the CKG version of tertiary I guess. I just got it last week. I'll have to look it up.

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Lobo316
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by Lobo316 »

PeelSeel2 wrote:I have been playing with Tertiary since the beginning (before CKG). Each PC gets 2 primes, 2 secondaries, and 2 tertiary. 12/15/18. Humans get 3 primes, 2 secondaries, and 1 tertiary. Works awesome!!

In my campaign I have gone with 12/14/16, however.

I am not familiar with the CKG version of tertiary I guess. I just got it last week. I'll have to look it up.

Cool, that's bascially exactly the way they have it in the CKG (12/15/18). I've just been noting how incredibly difficult it is to make any secondary rolls, and while I don't have a problem with that, neccessarily, I was considering implimenting the teritary attribute system to add little more "range", flexibility and flavor to the PCs. 12/18 is really pretty drastic. You're either good at something, or just plain suck, lol. No middle ground.

Still thinking it over. Curious to hear other opinions though.

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csperkins1970
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by csperkins1970 »

Hey Lobo. Have you ever thought of ditching primes altogether (very much for the reason that you pointed out)?

Just set the Challenge Base to 15 for all checks and give humans a +1 bonus to all attribute checks (to make up for the loss of an additional prime attribute). It was my starting point for overhauling C&C, is incredibly simple, and it works like a charm.
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by jdizzy001 »

one option, which doesn't seem to sit well with purists (no offense to anyone i've just heard a lot of "play the game as it is" comments) use a 12/15 for primes and secondaries. that seems to be what is done in AA and no one complaints. this also will make saves a bit more, well, savable. However, I really like the idea of tertiary abilities. 2 stats your good at, 2 your okay with and 2 which are your weakness. It brings the phrase "I should have paid more attention in history class" to a whole new light.
Another thing I do (I know you didn't ask but I'm on a roll now) is leave the CL at 0 for most rolls. This doesn't help with saves as they seem to default to CL=HD, but for regular checks, leave it at 0 unless the pc's want to do something CRAZY! Remember, the math in C&C breaks down like this: 12/18 with CL 0 ~ 50%/80% chance of failure (PC level depending). Tertiary math would be 50%/65%/80% chance of failure.

PS Lobo, after seeing your screen name I seriously considered changing mine to Zorro.
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Lobo316
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by Lobo316 »

jdizzy001 wrote:
PS Lobo, after seeing your screen name I seriously considered changing mine to Zorro.
LOL, nice! Actually, Lobo is a handle i've been using since high school. It was original a hero in the DC Heroes RPG (he as a "werewolf" of sorts). The name just stuck over the years, heh, heh.

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Lobo316
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by Lobo316 »

Thanks for the comments all. I am thinking of using a 12/15/18 system. Perkins, your idea is certainly interesting, though I likely won't go with it, not now anyway, but it has merit.

jdizzy001
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by jdizzy001 »

Lobo316 wrote:
jdizzy001 wrote:
PS Lobo, after seeing your screen name I seriously considered changing mine to Zorro.
LOL, nice! Actually, Lobo is a handle i've been using since high school. It was original a hero in the DC Heroes RPG (he as a "werewolf" of sorts). The name just stuck over the years, heh, heh.
Makes sense. Lobo means wolf, and Lobo sounds way cooler than Hombre-Lobo.
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ThrorII
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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by ThrorII »

csperkins1970 wrote:Just set the Challenge Base to 15 for all checks and give humans a +1 bonus to all attribute checks (to make up for the loss of an additional prime attribute). It was my starting point for overhauling C&C, is incredibly simple, and it works like a charm.

I am starting a new C&C game this weekend (our first since November of 2011). We are also ditching primes completely, and going for a straight DC15 +challenge levels.

We're keeping class primes, and giving a 10% XP bonus for the prime attribute of 16 or greater.

I'm offsetting the loss of human extra primes by re-instating demi-human level limits (ala AD&D).

I'll let you know how it goes. But yes, we were not enamored with the CB18 for non-primes. It pretty much guaranteed that a character was going to auto-fail a save in at least 3 catagories.

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Re: Tertiary Attributes

Post by PeelSeel2 »

Personally, I love the siege engine. The exact way I do it in my campaign is different in presentation, but the same in math for the 12/14/16 progression. I think the 12/18 or 12/15/18 is brutal. The 12/16 or 12/14/16 is sublime.

Characters choose 2 primes, 2 Secondaries, and 2 tertiary (unless human in which case 3/2/1). All base challenge levels are 16. Primes offer a +4, secondaries a +2, and tertiaries a +0.

Level is added to all saves and class abilities. Outside of that, I may allow no level, 1/2 level, and level to the roll. This is very situational and depends on whether the player and I feel it is a core competency (add level), a familiar competency (add 1/2 level), or not applicable to challenge (no level add). For instance, tracking. Rangers add level to roll. I might allow wood elves or a hunting background to add 1/2 level; all others it is a straight 16+challenge class to succeed.

Another example; I figure looking for secret doors is a non-class ability and level is not applicable to challenge. It is also a CL of 4, giving it a Challenge Class of 20. Depending on if you where actively searching or not, it would be a Wisdom or Intelligence check. Characters add ability modifier and siege modifier and roll. If they beat 20, success.

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