Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

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Treebore
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Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

I'm playing a Portal Keeper.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

TL is much more high powered, and deadly, than your typical setting. So far it makes Ravenloft seem like a cake walk.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

BTW, this boxed set is far and away the worst edited, badly written, poorly formatted product TLG has ever put out. Yes, its even worse than the 1st printing PH. If you guys reprint this, don't, unless you clean it up.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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NJPDX
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by NJPDX »

Treebore wrote:BTW, this boxed set is far and away the worst edited, badly written, poorly formatted product TLG has ever put out. Yes, its even worse than the 1st printing PH. If you guys reprint this, don't, unless you clean it up.
Since picking up my first batch of C&C materials about four months ago, I have to say this is one of the biggest issues I have with the system. I love the brilliant simplicity of the SIEGE rules and its emphasis on rulings over rules, but I have a helluva time reading some of the books simply for pleasure the way I do with other publishers' stuff (because I find typos so jarring and off-putting).

Grammar and spelling errors are big pet peeves of mine and it's been one of the main reasons I'm having trouble getting the players in my group to fully buy-in to C&C.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

NJPDX wrote:
Treebore wrote:BTW, this boxed set is far and away the worst edited, badly written, poorly formatted product TLG has ever put out. Yes, its even worse than the 1st printing PH. If you guys reprint this, don't, unless you clean it up.
Since picking up my first batch of C&C materials about four months ago, I have to say this is one of the biggest issues I have with the system. I love the brilliant simplicity of the SIEGE rules and its emphasis on rulings over rules, but I have a helluva time reading some of the books simply for pleasure the way I do with other publishers' stuff (because I find typos so jarring and off-putting).

Grammar and spelling errors are big pet peeves of mine and it's been one of the main reasons I'm having trouble getting the players in my group to fully buy-in to C&C.

Well, the only thing your players need to read is the PH, and the newest printings are pretty darn good. Only error in there that really bugs me right now is in the Phantasmal Killer spell.This boxed set on the other hand, its not just misspellings. The explanations are either completely lacking or outright confusing in at least a half dozen places, in classes as well as in the monster area. Even as badly laid out as the 1st printing PH is, it doesn't confuse me like this does. If we ever get around to making a fixed document I'll share what we do.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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NJPDX
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by NJPDX »

I agree that the fifth printing of the PHB is pretty good (just a handful of misplaced homophones and "strained" passages). I'm just reporting what I heard back from the people in my group when I loaned out the PHB and some of the monster books so people could look everything over. Aside from the one 4th ed. fan (i.e. munchkin, min-maxer) who thinks it's makes PC's too weak, the majority of criticism and comments I got back were almost exclusively about editing and clarity of prose.

But, honestly I think there's always a certain amount of resistance to anything that doesn't have "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover for a lot of RPers, so despite some generally favorable reactions to the the SIEGE system and its elegance, anytime there's something "off" or "amateurish" about a third-party product it's just one more obstacle to overcome when you're trying to sell people on an idea.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

NJPDX wrote:I agree that the fifth printing of the PHB is pretty good (just a handful of misplaced homophones and "strained" passages). I'm just reporting what I heard back from the people in my group when I loaned out the PHB and some of the monster books so people could look everything over. Aside from the one 4th ed. fan (i.e. munchkin, min-maxer) who thinks it's makes PC's too weak, the majority of criticism and comments I got back were almost exclusively about editing and clarity of prose.

But, honestly I think there's always a certain amount of resistance to anything that doesn't have "Dungeons and Dragons" on the cover for a lot of RPers, so despite some generally favorable reactions to the the SIEGE system and its elegance, anytime there's something "off" or "amateurish" about a third-party product it's just one more obstacle to overcome when you're trying to sell people on an idea.

Yeah, I had that problem too. I solved it by saying, "Do you want me to run games?" The answer was yes, so I said, "Then its going to be C&C, and we are all going to have fun." Which we have, for years now.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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NJPDX
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

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Treebore wrote: Yeah, I had that problem too. I solved it by saying, "Do you want me to run games?" The answer was yes, so I said, "Then its going to be C&C, and we are all going to have fun." Which we have, for years now.
I don't have that kind of leverage. I'm the wayward son come home recently after quitting for 4 years (coincidentally when they made the switch to 4th ed) and when I GM it'll mostly be in a secondary role to the guy who has been the main referee for the last 13 years or so.

Fortunately everybody (minus one) is sick and tired of the "grindy," "samey" combat in 4th and are eager for a change. Before everybody commits to 5th ed. I'm trying like hell to get people to embrace something a little different.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

Keep it up! Every single person I game with that comes from 3E or 4E slowly but surely "converts", realizing that complexity and the illusion of "choice" is not needed, when you can have simplicity with the freedom to "choose" to try and do anything you want, even other class abilities, just without adding your level. THAT is freedom, that is a complex character, simply done.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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mbeacom
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by mbeacom »

NJPDX wrote:
Treebore wrote: Yeah, I had that problem too. I solved it by saying, "Do you want me to run games?" The answer was yes, so I said, "Then its going to be C&C, and we are all going to have fun." Which we have, for years now.
I don't have that kind of leverage. I'm the wayward son come home recently after quitting for 4 years (coincidentally when they made the switch to 4th ed) and when I GM it'll mostly be in a secondary role to the guy who has been the main referee for the last 13 years or so.

Fortunately everybody (minus one) is sick and tired of the "grindy," "samey" combat in 4th and are eager for a change. Before everybody commits to 5th ed. I'm trying like hell to get people to embrace something a little different.
I ran 4E for years and now we're playtesting 5E. I've been having some fun doing so though.The reason is that I've substituted the Siege Engine for the 5E resolution. I just use obvious prime stats (Dex for rogues, Int for wizards, etc) or assume prime if I'm not sure.It works fine and my players haven't noticed. 5E is actually pretty good and very cross compatible with C&C if you have an open mind.
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Snoring Rock »

I looked at 5e at the very opening and read through it and found too much 4e flavor in it to even bother. However, I recently downloaded the last packet. I have read through it several times.

The short monster stats caught my eye. You can use monsters from C&C, AD&D or even Swords and Wizardry in this game. You may have to add something here or there, and use different experience points, but very little conversion needed. I was pleasantly surprised.

I read more each day and my group is going to play test this thing this week. D&D Next looks really good from here right now. This is very C&C compatible/friendly. So far, I like the flavor.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Fizz »

I've been trying DD Next through all iterations of the playtest. They started promisingly, but i've been less happy with each iteration. I do prefer it to 4E, but i am concerned it's still going to be more bloated than 3E, with an over reliance on feats to tell you what you can and can't do. However, i am glad that it seems more like 3E than 4E, which does make it more compatible with other systems including C&C. And they are using a few ideas that C&C already uses (ie, saves for every attribute).

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Snoring Rock »

My experience has been quite different. I never even printed the feats file. What I see, has no need of feats at all. What I like most is the clear, concise, rules that never contradict. I have not seen the final product, but so far it looks good. I really like the siege engine-like ability checks and the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. Very C&C like and very "don't have to look it up" feeling to me. I would disagree about bloat.

However, the 3e/Pathfinder set will demand bloat, so they have the feats and splat books that will follow. If you stick to the core game, I think that will not be something to worry about. We will see.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by NJPDX »

Yeah the inherent bloat is what concerns me about 5th ed. Feats optional? Yeah right. There's no way I'm going to win that fight.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Snoring Rock »

?? In the how to play and rules section, there is no mention of them accept that "if you DM uses them". Not sure if you have to buy a supplement to get them or not, but the monsters are written without them. All of the mechanics are written and work without them. Feats are optional.

My concern are the lists of abilities given at each level up. They do not seem over-powered, but they add up. Where C&C is overly light for the fighter as an example, I think 5e is a bit heavy. Not like Pathfinder by any reach, but heavier none the less.

I like the mechanics but have not played yet.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by mbeacom »

Feats didn't even exist until more recent iterations. In the current state of the rules, the feats are totally optional (it says so repeatedly). And, there are not many to choose from. There are currently only 25 feats in the playtest. They made a point of saying that in 5E they want to have far fewer, but more potent feats. Not only are they optional, but they're designing an alternative to using them so it won't be so natural to assume they are used in game. At every point in your class level structure where you would gain a feat (there are generally 4-5 feat gaining levels between 1-20, except Fighters who get a couple more), you can take an ability bump instead. So players who use feats can play at the same table as players who do not and still be of similar capability. Or entire groups who choose not to use feats won't be less powerful than a group who chooses to use them. Thus they are designing feats to be roughly similar in power to gaining an ability score bump. It's clean and simple and makes sense in the story as well. Characters who learn something new (a feat) would be less likely to spend time improving the abilities they already have (ability scores). My current group is NOT using feats and it's working great. Nor are we using skills. This is by far, the least bloated version of D&D since Basic. I'm really happy about it. Were it not for the fact that I am so in love with C&C, this is probably the edition I would be playing.
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by tylermo »

Just played in one game of the latest Next playtest. Seems like it was alright. Hard to say at this point, but possibly preferable to all other iterations. However, my no.1 fantasy game since 05 has been C&C. Obviously some differences between the two. D&D wizard started at D6 hit points, some of those at-will cantrips and what not. My eleven wizard pre-gen had a sword and bow (due to racial training or whatever). Some other differences, as well. Outside of the possible varying levels of the two games, it was ok. I have enough C&C stuff (the entire catalog) to keep me content. I will play some more 5th, but will continue doing my best to convert people to C&C.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by tylermo »

Seems like Dwarves (at least) had 25ft. movement vs. the usual 20. And, I also believe characters are allowed to move full movement and attack.

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by alcyone »

Treebore wrote:BTW, this boxed set is far and away the worst edited, badly written, poorly formatted product TLG has ever put out. Yes, its even worse than the 1st printing PH. If you guys reprint this, don't, unless you clean it up.
I am a big Jim Ward fan. I think his work is the sort of thing that ought to be showcased by a company lucky enough to have him as a contributor. Tainted Lands has a lot of good ideas, and needs some polishing to bring out the shine.

One trend I like in these boxed sets are the extra PHBs. It's great to have them for people making characters so they don't monopolize my copy. Doing a generic quickstart rules book isn't worth it though; it needs to be in theme with the presented game and the rules need to be correct. It can probably be shortened to just chargen, equipment, and combat maneuvers. The Numenera Player's Guide isn't perfect either but is a good act to follow.
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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Treebore »

We agree that the content/ideas are pretty dang cool. If it wasn't, we wouldn't bother with it.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Re: Tainted Lands in the house tonight!

Post by Dracyian »

I feel a little odd saying thread necro cause I'm waiting for some undead thing to reach from the computer screen and eat me.

Finally got around to picking this up, having been at gamehole con and had the pleasure to meet and speak with Jim a bit and watch his games and all the kind words that Frank Spoke about him while we ran around the Lich's dungeon. He was even very kind and super awesome about signing the book. I love it, can't wait to get a bit more in depth in reading it to runs this setting.

I think this would be a good/great/grand addition to the Haunted Highland stuff that Casey has and is putting out and I'm thinking about starting my players in the tainted lands then allowing themp to journey or stumble across Dirty Bowbe and ramping up some of the difficulty there, making it more difficult for players to just walk through and increasing the monster count and such things. Maybe even make Dirt Bowbe's the last bit of civilization between the Highlands and the Tainted Lands, but having never actually gone in there is a desolate wasteland between the two and there is plenty to keep them entertained close by. That coupled with the fact that few people come from there and even few go there and return alive and all that return are never the same having dispearingly difficult times fitting in with the untainted people having experienced true horror, just like those that travel from the tainted Highlands to Dirty Bowbe's.

As for some of the editing, I have noticed some spelling errors and I am still a little lost about the two new attributes, I am going to have to sit and really read it and scoure the forums too to see if there is anything on here concerning them.

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