C&C Spelljammer

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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treant_on_fire
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C&C Spelljammer

Post by treant_on_fire »

I'm thinking of tracking down the old Spelljammer stuff but I'm not overly familiar with it...

Would it mix well with C&C?

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Relaxo
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by Relaxo »

so yes!!!
it's just 2nd ed rules and a wacky/cool setting, why wouldn't it?

the only minor thing is I think any spell caster (arcane magic only?) can run a spelljammer helm, so there'd be fewer helm-worthy classes... which is fine, really.
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Lord Dynel
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by Lord Dynel »

I'd say so. I wouldn't see any reason why it wouldn't. I'd say sail space in style, my man!
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cinabro
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by cinabro »

Hackjammer should also work well with C&C. I am planning to use it for a "Swords in Space" campaign.

Wasgo
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by Wasgo »

How much of Spelljammer do you actually want to use?

There's Fast Play rules at Spelljammer.org, Andy Collins has 3e versions of the classic races and the Archive of the old D&D Classic Downloads page has deck plans.

If you're just looking for some basic ship rules, the new races and some ships, that'll do you. A lot of the remaining information is more to do with the worlds that are part of the setting, but if you'll be making your own, you don't need it.

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Lord Crimson
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by Lord Crimson »

Relaxo wrote:so yes!!!
it's just 2nd ed rules and a wacky/cool setting, why wouldn't it?

the only minor thing is I think any spell caster (arcane magic only?) can run a spelljammer helm, so there'd be fewer helm-worthy classes... which is fine, really.
Actually, any spellcaster could power a helm, divine or arcane. IIRC, paladins and rangers counted as spellcasters only up to their casting level, though. I don't recall if the bards had a similar limiter.

My one complaint about helms, though, was that, as written, an SJ helm made the spellcaster powering it useless for an entire day, which kind of screws any PC in that role out of actually providing support other than powering the ship.

A better idea, I'd think, would be to give up so many spell-slots for the day and using a small table to convert that into a spelljamming rating (I think that's what it was called... basically the speed of the ship). That way, PCs could decide how much power to sacrifice for the day AND, when in a tight combat spot, could burn MORE power for extra speed (giving you some interesting Millennium Falcon moments).

Another niggling complaint was that the ship didn't influence speed at all, only maneuverability. So having a higher level wizard was the sole indicator of ship speed... which sort of stops those aforementioned Millennium Falcon tropes dead in their tracks (you on;y have the fastest ship in the galaxy... er, sphere if you have the highest level wizard/priest).
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treant_on_fire
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by treant_on_fire »

Bump!

So, still considering this but I don't have the Spelljammer boxed set yet. (I'll eventually buy it online if I feel like I could use it)

Thing is, I don't know AD&D. How many of the rules will I be able to use if I don't know what they originally meant? Will the conversions found online even be applicable?

I understand that conversion is easy (I used the conversion rules to have some 3.5 critters fight some of my PCs one time), but can you convert while being ignorant of the original system? (AD&D in this case)

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TheMetal1
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by TheMetal1 »

treant_on_fire wrote:So, still considering this but I don't have the Spelljammer boxed set yet. (I'll eventually buy it online if I feel like I could use it)

Thing is, I don't know AD&D. How many of the rules will I be able to use if I don't know what they originally meant? Will the conversions found online even be applicable?

I understand that conversion is easy (I used the conversion rules to have some 3.5 critters fight some of my PCs one time), but can you convert while being ignorant of the original system? (AD&D in this case)
First, you can always download OSRIC, which is a retro clone of AD&D. Here is the wikipedia blurb on it:
OSRIC, short for Old School Reference and Index Compilation, describes itself as "a compilation of rules for old school-style fantasy gaming...intended to reproduce underlying rules used in the late 1970s to early 1980s".[1] It is a role-playing game. Although OSRIC never refers to this directly for legal reasons, it is intended to reproduce the rules of the first edition of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, much like other Dungeons & Dragons simulacrums.

The legal basis of the project is that rules may not be copyrighted, only the "artistic presentation" of those rules.[2] OSRIC uses the Open Gaming License and the System Reference Document to create a new artistic presentation of the underlying rules set.

The purpose of OSRIC is to provide publishers with a tool to legally produce gaming materials compatible with the non-copyrightable aspects of the underlying rules set. Gaming materials described as OSRIC-compatible alert potential users those materials may be compatible with the fantasy rules sets of the late 1970s and early 1980s (i.e. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons).[3]

The initial version of OSRIC was released in 2006. The latest version, OSRIC v. 2.2, was released in 2011. The OSRIC rules are free to download from the game's site in PDF form.[4] In June 2009, hard copy versions of the rules became available from the Lulu Print-On-Demand service in 4 versions: hard bound in black and white, hard bound in color, paperback and paperback economy.
Bottom line, OSRIC has all the rules and should answer all your questions. More importantly it is free. Though you could purchase an art version of the PDF or dead tree version of OSRIC as well. Here is the link to the PDF:
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/

Alternately, you could just pre-order WOTCs 1st edition AD&D re-release with the faux leather covers come out in July if you want to wait that long, or just buy a used copy.

Lastly, what issues are you concerned with? I don't have Spelljammer but do have Hackjammer, and might be able to help.

treant_on_fire
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by treant_on_fire »

TheMetal1 wrote:
treant_on_fire wrote:So, still considering this but I don't have the Spelljammer boxed set yet. (I'll eventually buy it online if I feel like I could use it)

Thing is, I don't know AD&D. How many of the rules will I be able to use if I don't know what they originally meant? Will the conversions found online even be applicable?

I understand that conversion is easy (I used the conversion rules to have some 3.5 critters fight some of my PCs one time), but can you convert while being ignorant of the original system? (AD&D in this case)
First, you can always download OSRIC, which is a retro clone of AD&D. Here is the wikipedia blurb on it:
OSRIC, short for Old School Reference and Index Compilation, describes itself as "a compilation of rules for old school-style fantasy gaming...intended to reproduce underlying rules used in the late 1970s to early 1980s".[1] It is a role-playing game. Although OSRIC never refers to this directly for legal reasons, it is intended to reproduce the rules of the first edition of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, much like other Dungeons & Dragons simulacrums.

The legal basis of the project is that rules may not be copyrighted, only the "artistic presentation" of those rules.[2] OSRIC uses the Open Gaming License and the System Reference Document to create a new artistic presentation of the underlying rules set.

The purpose of OSRIC is to provide publishers with a tool to legally produce gaming materials compatible with the non-copyrightable aspects of the underlying rules set. Gaming materials described as OSRIC-compatible alert potential users those materials may be compatible with the fantasy rules sets of the late 1970s and early 1980s (i.e. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons).[3]

The initial version of OSRIC was released in 2006. The latest version, OSRIC v. 2.2, was released in 2011. The OSRIC rules are free to download from the game's site in PDF form.[4] In June 2009, hard copy versions of the rules became available from the Lulu Print-On-Demand service in 4 versions: hard bound in black and white, hard bound in color, paperback and paperback economy.
Bottom line, OSRIC has all the rules and should answer all your questions. More importantly it is free. Though you could purchase an art version of the PDF or dead tree version of OSRIC as well. Here is the link to the PDF:
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/

Alternately, you could just pre-order WOTCs 1st edition AD&D re-release with the faux leather covers come out in July if you want to wait that long, or just buy a used copy.

Lastly, what issues are you concerned with? I don't have Spelljammer but do have Hackjammer, and might be able to help.
Thank you for your help!

I downloaded and checked out OSRIC, it's very interesting for me to finally have a direct idea of what the rules were like back then! Still, I much prefer C&C to 1e AD&D. C&C has a much more streamlined ruleset and treats non-humans much better. (Even if I more often than not play humans!)

I guess my question is more along the lines of; Would I be able to run a Spelljammer game with C&C just using Spelljammer's fluff? And are the ship combat rules directly related to the AD&D rules in a way that I'd have to do a lot of conversions?

serleran
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by serleran »

The best thing about Spelljammer are the beholders. Oh, and mind flayers actually have a home. And they're nasty. Nasty, nasty.

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TheMetal1
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Re: C&C Spelljammer

Post by TheMetal1 »

treant_on_fire wrote:I guess my question is more along the lines of; Would I be able to run a Spelljammer game with C&C just using Spelljammer's fluff? And are the ship combat rules directly related to the AD&D rules in a way that I'd have to do a lot of conversions?
1. Sure, the core mechanic for Spelljammer is AD&D 2e, C&C works pretty easy with that, just convert to ascending armor class, ditch skills and weapons speed and use SIEGE checks and base initiative, and that should cover it.

2. You'd have to look at OSRIC for that. Wasgo mentioned the Spelljammer 2e Fast Play rules over at Spelljammer.org up thread. I took a quick read of the Space Combat, pretty simply.

a. Hex based for movement, with a "3d" counter showing it's height/depth
b. Roll for initiative, Winner Moves, Loser Moves rinse Repeat.
c. You can use Ships Weapons or ranged weapons on your initiative. distance varies based on gravity/sphere
d. You can Ram/Grapple which could result in "shearing" chunks of the ship off.
e. Critical hits

I think you can play straight up with whats in the fast play rules and the fluff on the main page. Here is the link again for reference:

http://www.spelljammer.org/rules/fastplay2e.html

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