Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
Post Reply
bc99
Skobbit
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by bc99 »

Hello all, first post!

I just got an e-mail with the $20 offer from TLG for players handbook + monster manual (and an adventure to boot). I couldn't help myself. I ordered, even though I had a previous version (tan cover). Over on Dragons foot I had a few posts, including an adventure log which died due to time constraints. I did finish the campaign, but it was harder posting a good adventure log than playing the game. Anyway, I'm back with new books and a new group.

I'm going to run the adventure that came with the purchase (something about a party gone bad in halfling lands). We're starting next month. My friends came over, and we made characters.

My friend Aaron likes to play dwarven fighters. He kinda looks like a dwarf, all beard and girth and shortness and what not. He was looking through the tan cover book deciding on his character, and noted the fighter and barbarian. He liked them both. Later in the evening he gets ready to roll his character and picks up the green cover book. He then notices that the barbarian totally kicks ass, can wear ANY armor, has better skills, and has a d12 HD. The class was totally different (and better) between books. Also, Barbarians level faster than fighters after 12th level. He was like, misprint? I kinda shrugged "I don't know".

He continued on and then noted that the ranger is also awesome, with all sorts of skills, d10 HD, and levels faster than the fighter.

He looks at the fighter and goes... really, a skill against 1HD monsters and weapon specialization... and now I quote, "Who would ever play a fighter"?

Erm, eh, I tried to answer. I couldn't. Really.

Have other castle keepers run into this problem? I decided to fix the barbarian issue by saying the ANY armor was a misprint, and that we would utilize the new skill descriptions in the green book, but utilize the armor restrictions from the tan book. He went with the barbarian.

Anyway, good to be back in the adventuring mode! September will see our valiant group off on untold adventures!

Cheers!

User avatar
redwullf
Ulthal
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by redwullf »

"Concerns" about the fighter crop up now and then. Generally, CKs confronted with this may choose to house rule some modifications to the class, such as additional attacks at higher levels. It's your call of course, but the fighter may be "spruced up" a bit. Oh, another recommendation is the Castle Keeper's Guide, which has "Advantages" (the C&C version of "Feats"). You might choose to make some of the combat advantages only available to fighters, which would improve them dramatically.
Image
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs. He presents opportunities
for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own.” -- E. G. G.

--------------------------------------------------
Castles & Crusades Society Member

User avatar
zarathustra
Red Cap
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 7:00 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by zarathustra »

look closer. barbarian can wear any armour but can't use many of his abilities if wearing heavy armour.

bc99
Skobbit
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by bc99 »

Hey great, some quick responses.

-Red- Yeah we'll see if we need to, CKG is my next purchase. I'll check it out.

-Zara- Yeah we noted those, but only deerstalker and primeval instincts. The whirlwind, primeval will, intimidate, have no armor restrictions. Whirlwind is pretty awesome. I like the idea of having to lose the bulky armor to do your deerstalking, etc.

User avatar
redwullf
Ulthal
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by redwullf »

Weapon specialization, I should point out, is nothing to sneeze at. At higher levels (which you'll see in the CKG), fighters can double-specialize, or specialize in a 2nd weapon. They also pick up some other key abilities.

From my perspective, giving fighters not necessarily a unique access to advantages, but rather allowing them to pick up combat advantages more quickly (at a greater level frequency, as in 3.x/Pathfinder) really boosts the class nicely.
Image
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs. He presents opportunities
for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own.” -- E. G. G.

--------------------------------------------------
Castles & Crusades Society Member

User avatar
Rigon
Clang lives!
Posts: 7202
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Rigon »

In my experience, if you want a pure fighting machine, go with the fighter. If you want some one good at combat and other things, go with any of the other warrior classes (ranger, barbarian, monk, knight, paladin, or bard). But realize, that a fighter of equal levels with any other warrior class, will out shine those classes in combat, period.

R-
Castles & Crusades: What 3rd Edition AD&D should have been.
TLG Forum Moderator
House Rules & Whatnots
My Game Threads
Monday Night Online Group Member since 2007

mediapig
Ungern
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by mediapig »

Also, remember bonuses are a lot harder to come by in C&C than in other D20 systems... the fighter, with his weapon specialization and higher BAB is almost always going to have a better chance of hitting opponents than anyone else.

That being said, I also think that the CKG Advantages rules help boost Fighters significantly, by speeding up their acquisition rate of advantages compared to other classes.

If you like adding Feats/Advantages to the game, there is an excellent fan site that has some really nice, simplified and streamlined feat rules... I use these, with some of the CKG ones added in... check it out!

http://sites.google.com/site/advancedca ... dcrusades/

User avatar
Piperdog
Unkbartig
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Martin, MI

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Piperdog »

I totally understand the initial frustration with the fighter. At a glance, he seems very plain indeed. But like Rigon and others pointed out, the class really does stand out in game play when the dice start actually rolling. The fighter is the only one with a base to hit bonus right out of the gate. With a specialized weapon, he is now at +2 to hit above everybody else, which is actually pretty substantial. I have made use of the combat advantages as well from the CKG, and they also offset any perceived imbalance. I still feel that the ranger, in a campaign that seems to always take place in the forest and against humanoid threats, will outshine the fighter in combat, but this is more of a design flaw in the campaign, not the class. The fighter is good against everything and everywhere, whether against a humanoid or strange abberation, whether in the forest or on another plane...

Still, comparing that damn Combat Marauder damage bonus to the fighters ability to damage opponents does drive me crazy now and then...and I love rangers btw. I have toyed with the idea of giving fighters and paladins something similar. Fighters would get to add 1/2 their level for damage against EVERYTHING! Paladins could add 1/2 their level to damage on any devil, demon, undead, or extraplanar evil foe. Just ideas at this point really.

User avatar
Omote
Battle Stag
Posts: 11560
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Location: The fairest view in the park, Ohio.
Contact:

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Omote »

mediapig wrote:Also, remember bonuses are a lot harder to come by in C&C than in other D20 systems... the fighter, with his weapon specialization and higher BAB is almost always going to have a better chance of hitting opponents than anyone else.
This, in spades.

Give the fighter a high STR and DEX scores, and he is unsurpassed in actually hitting in combat. Even without these attribute bonuses, he is the best at actually hitting in combat. With these bonuses, he is the powerhous fighter of the group. Plus, CKG aside, it's the only class that gets two attacks (at 10th level).

~O
@-Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society-@
VAE VICTUS!
>> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <<

User avatar
Rigon
Clang lives!
Posts: 7202
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Rigon »

Was just reading through the whirlwind attack description and noticed it is only usable once per combat, while combat dominence can be used every round that it qualifies. Seems to me that combat dominence is way more effective than whirlwind attack.

R-
Castles & Crusades: What 3rd Edition AD&D should have been.
TLG Forum Moderator
House Rules & Whatnots
My Game Threads
Monday Night Online Group Member since 2007

Lord Dynel
Maukling
Posts: 5843
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Lord Dynel »

Welcome to the Crusade, bc99!

As most other people have already stated, the fighter can be a little understated, at first glance. They are the only class that can get two attacks per round, with a weapon, every round (at 10th level). They're the only class that has level = BtB. Weapon Specialization is a pretty good booster, too, to attacks and damage. If you utilize low-level mooks in your game (like I do - skeletons, goblins, and orcs never go out of style :)), then Combat Dominance is really nice. Add in the ability to wear any armor and use any shield without penalty to any class ability, and it's not a bad option.

And bc, take a look at the level chart again, not just the last level. Fighters actually level faster than rangers to 9th level, where the ranger finally jumps out. Then at 10th they even up again. Once 10th is achieved though, the fighter slows down slower than the ranger (which accurately reflects the fighter finally getting that second, kick-ass, attack).

Don't be discouraged, or let your friend be...tell him he can roll up a fighter with confidence. They're my favorite class, infact...by far.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

User avatar
Breakdaddy
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3875
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Breakdaddy »

In play, I've found the fighter to be the best all around hitter in any given group, regardless of level. I play fighters almost exclusively when I get a chance to actually play instead of CK. Braghni, my Dwarf fighter, was the only character that survived to level 2 in the last games I played in that were run by Steve Chenault. Play a fighter with sound tactics and I promise you that he will deliver just about every time.
"If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."
-Genghis Khan

User avatar
Go0gleplex
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3723
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 7:00 am
Location: Keizer, OR

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Go0gleplex »

Nothing more to add to the above other than Welcome to the Crusade. Happy hunting!
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."

User avatar
Lurker
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:00 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Lurker »

Go0gleplex wrote: Nothing more to add to the above other than Welcome to the Crusade. Happy hunting!

Rgr on that, welcome to the Crusade!
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

User avatar
Relaxo
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3350
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Relaxo »

Indeed, others have said it already, the fighter really isn't anything to sneeze at, and welcome aboard!
The Barbarian was updated for the green cover (4th printing) and is totally sweet, to be sure.
Bill D.
Author: Yarr! Rules-Light Pirate RPG
BD Games - www.playBDgames.com
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.ph ... rs_id=5781

serleran
Mogrl
Posts: 13866
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by serleran »

The fighter is the baseline class, from which all others were developed. Of course it is bland. It is the core of the core.

bc99
Skobbit
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by bc99 »

Thank you O Trollish ones!

Great breakdown. Yeah I've been rereading and checking out the adventures I plan to run. Having a fighter would be nice. We'll see how the other players choose their classes. Maybe we'll get one yet. I think sometimes people go for the "shiny" aspect of classes. That's what happened to us when we were looking at both editions.

That being said, knowing we'll have at least one barbarian, I can see the roleplay opportunities already:

Dignon the Elf says, "Oh look, Neenoch the Barbarian is taking off his armor again, he must be getting ready to do something primal!"

Thanks again, for the welcome and insight.

User avatar
Relaxo
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3350
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Relaxo »

I dare say a fighter is necessary. Their versitility is a key strength that isn't obvious at first read.
Have fun!
Bill D.
Author: Yarr! Rules-Light Pirate RPG
BD Games - www.playBDgames.com
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.ph ... rs_id=5781

User avatar
Sir Osis of Liver
Unkbartig
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Hello! First post in the forum, and a question.

Post by Sir Osis of Liver »

Welcome to the Crusade, bc. Enjoy your time here. The fighter is definitely not one to be trifled with. Once you've played one, you'll see.

Post Reply