Troll Lord Games

I like the idea of Secondary SKills (we definitely used to use them in 1e) But I'm not quite understanding the way they are presented in the CKG. According to the book, they give a +1 to Attribute checks when the secondary skill is used. However, it also says you do not add your level bonus to secondary skills. However, in the players guide, it says you may add you level bonus to any check that is not another's class ability. As written, this seems to make having a secondary skill worse than not having it, at least at higher levels.

The PHB passage is referring to class abilities as they differ between classes. Not so much things that might fall under Attribute checks. It means that if a thief attempts to pick a pocket, that is a class skill for them so they add their level. If it were a fighter doing so, pick pocket is not a class skill so no joy. Attribute checks do add the character level to them such as the example given in the top right of pg 123 and noted in subsequent paragraphs of that section. Page 232 of the CKG affirms the use of that section of the PHB in the first paragraph under Using Attribute Checks.

On page 234 of the CKG, the paragraph just above that labeled Attribute modifiers on the right column states pretty specifically when class level is added. Since non-class skills are not attribute checks, then secondary skills would fall into that category and therefore do not add level. That would give the value of the +1 bonus back to the skill itself since it would grant a bonus where there is normally not one other than the attribute modifier. In some cases, the skill may allow the attribute modifier to be augmented as well in which case I believe the bonuses would stack.

While this may mean that at higher levels the secondary skill does not have as many bonuses as a class skill, it is not really different than if secondary skills were not being used...which the character is not using in a dedicated fashion on a daily basis the same as they are doing with their class abilities in theory. Thus is the nature of the abstraction of any rules system.

Anyhow...that's how I'm reading these sections. The trolls may chime in with further information or correct mine...but I hope this helps some.

Ah, I'll take a look at that chart, maybe it will clarify things for me.... thanks!

I was just wondering about this myself. I was thinking of house ruling it to add half level, round down, instead of +1.
I still might, but that's because I'd like Secondary Skills to have a greater effect on play, acting almost like class abilities.
I also thought I'd house rule the Advantages system to allow every character to choose a single advantage for customization.he advantages, but I do NOT want feats involved in my game. Too many loop holes, too many exceptions, too much slowing things down to pour over feats when deciding what to do in combat. A single one added on top of the class abilities seems to be a great way to make each character unique without overdoing it.

Yeah, I was thinking of either adding the 1/2 level, or, allowing to add level +1, whenever level would normally be appropriate. It seems to me that the intention of the Player's Handbook is to add level to all checks that aren't abilities of other classes... or instance, in the example they give, a fighter adds his level to a check for pushing over a statue. This isn't a specific class ability, so if he can add his level to that, it seems to me he should be able to add his level to a swimming check as well... and, if he has the Sailor secondary skill, he should then be able to swim better than someone who doesn't. But that;s just my opinion... as many have pointed out, C&C's flexibility to house ruling is one of its greatest strengths!

One way of looking at the skills is to consider them checks against and/the associated attribute and run them as attribute checks...which is sort of where you are headed.