Damage from Back Attack

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mgtremaine
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Damage from Back Attack

Post by mgtremaine »

I tried searching for it but only found one case. I just wanted to see how everyone interpreted "Normal Damage" in the sentence.

"A successful hit inflicts double the normal damage."

Does this include a weapons damage bonus?

Does this include Strength Bonus?

Does this include buff's from Prayer et al....

[By "this" I mean the multiplier.]

-Mike

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Post by Treebore »

It means whatever the normal damage is for the thief, which includes everything they do on a "normal" attack. Which is the "normal" face to face combat roll.

So its weapon damage + STR + magic. The only thing not multiplied is damage done due to poison, that has its own set of rules.
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Post by serleran »

Normal damage is what is inflicted by the weapon alone, sans any modifiers, including those of a magical nature. This means you roll the weapon / attack's base damage, multiply it, and then add in all bonuses/penalties. Additionally, I would recommend "double" means rolling the dice twice, rather than simply multiplying...

However, you can feel free to do it whatever way you like.
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Post by mgtremaine »

As I suspected different opinions , this is why it is important to included examples in the text. The combat example has a Sneak Attack, too bad it did not have a Back Attack example.

-Mike

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Post by Treebore »

mgtremaine wrote:
As I suspected different opinions , this is why it is important to included examples in the text. The combat example has a Sneak Attack, too bad it did not have a Back Attack example.

-Mike

Mine is actually taken from how "Weapon Damage" is defined on page 134, second column, 4th printing of the PH.

In that paragraph they talk about weapon damage and how attribute modifiers and magic is part of that damage. So that is how I define "normal damage" in terms of any attack.

So basically "normal damage" is the weapons damage die plus all applicable modifiers. The ones specifically mentioned are Attribute and magical modifiers, it also goes on to mention other modifiers can apply as well.

So I think if you want a "by the book" answer, mine is it.
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Post by serleran »

Yeah, basically true, if you want a "by the book" answer (which I would not support, by the way.) Doing it the other way is much more traditional, and leads to less damage, overall, because bonuses are not turned into multipliers... a +5 (with a x4, for example) remains a +5 and not a +20.

As I said before, whatever way you want to roll with it. Makes rogues and assassins (well, rogues more -- assassins have death attack) more viable against high HD foes if they get to multiply their bonuses too. So there is that.
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Post by mgtremaine »

Good points on both sides, thanks Tree for the specific page reference. I'll probably end up agreeing and going that way although in my mind I was kicking around a half step which was no strength damage added the multiplier. The reason would be the Back Attack is more of a finesse attack, it's not cutting the head off with a massive blow it's finding the right spot and sliding the blade home. So add strength at the end but multiple the other bits....

-Mike

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Post by Treebore »

mgtremaine wrote:
Good points on both sides, thanks Tree for the specific page reference. I'll probably end up agreeing and going that way although in my mind I was kicking around a half step which was no strength damage added the multiplier. The reason would be the Back Attack is more of a finesse attack, it's not cutting the head off with a massive blow it's finding the right spot and sliding the blade home. So add strength at the end but multiple the other bits....

-Mike

Believe me, when you bury that knife where you want it, strength matters.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Post by mgtremaine »

Yes, it's a hard sell, which is not worth the effort.

How about Rogue's dual wielding? How do you feel about allowing both attacks to get Back Attack multiplier? [Or Sneak Attack for that matter?]

-Mike

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Post by Treebore »

mgtremaine wrote:
Yes, it's a hard sell, which is not worth the effort.

How about Rogue's dual wielding? How do you feel about allowing both attacks to get Back Attack multiplier? [Or Sneak Attack for that matter?]

-Mike

Usually they have to make a number of move silent and hiding rolls to sneak up on someone, so if/when they get their I allow their back attack to be a full attack action, meaning they do what they can do while their target is surprised, which traditionally means a full round of attacks.

So since I allow 10th level fighters to get in their 2 attacks on a surprise round, to be consistent I have to allow anyone to get their multiple attacks in.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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