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2nd printing of modules 
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Ulthal

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
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Post 2nd printing of modules
Have there been any C&C mods that have gone to a second print yet?

is anyone keeping tabs of the errata that is brought forward on these boards?

or now that TLG has moved more towards a POD model, will there never really ever be different "printings" any longer.

Cheers,

J.


Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:31 pm
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Mogrl

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As I understand it, and assuming they ever figured out how to use the machines, the Trolls print their own modules.

So if that is true, I would imagine print editions are on a as needed basis, and probably not designated "x" printing. Except maybe in the cases where maps were missing and other similiar serious issues.
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Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:24 pm
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Mogrl

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If you count d20 versions, lots of the modules have undergone 2nd, third, fourth, and even fifth printings. :)


Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:49 am
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Ulthal

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guess my point is being missed. Phb at the 3rd printing and the M&T at the first printing are very good books, with most of the errors ironed out of them. not so for any of the modules, they are just simply chalk full of mistakes.

are there any plans to at some future point actually release corrected versions of these modules. you know with maps that should be included, keys correctly pointing to correct locations, proper monster write-ups for modules - big things...

Anyway, just an idle question, but I'm pretty sure with a POD model, this will be unlikely at best.

Cheers,

J.


Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:09 pm
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I would imagine that there are no 2nd print runs because the first print runs of these mods are still in the system.

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Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:09 pm
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Mogrl

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Yep, I bet there would be 2nd prints if the 1st prints sold out. Then, again, maybe the 1st prints would sell out if they had fewer mistakes. :)


Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:15 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
Then, again, maybe the 1st prints would sell out if they had fewer mistakes.



^QFT.

I have to say, as much as I like C&C, the Trolls have effectively lost me as a customer for 'first prints' of anything short of the core books. After I bought a few modules which didn't have maps printed in them, and seeing lots of other errata and 'fixes' threads, I just don't feel like giving them any more money until they get their act together.

Add to that, that when problems do arise, the Trolls are slow as molasses to get the fixes out (have they posted PDFs of those missing module maps yet?) it makes me much less interested in shelling out more money for their stuff.

I'll still pick up the CKG if it ever comes out, but I have to say I'm expecting it to be full of errors. Hate to be a pessimist, but as the saying goes, "Fool me once..."


Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:59 am
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Renegade Mage
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Quote:
zomben wrote:
I have to say, as much as I like C&C, the Trolls have effectively lost me as a customer for 'first prints' of anything short of the core books. After I bought a few modules which didn't have maps printed in them, and seeing lots of other errata and 'fixes' threads, I just don't feel like giving them any more money until they get their act together.

Add to that, that when problems do arise, the Trolls are slow as molasses to get the fixes out (have they posted PDFs of those missing module maps yet?) it makes me much less interested in shelling out more money for their stuff.

I'll still pick up the CKG if it ever comes out, but I have to say I'm expecting it to be full of errors. Hate to be a pessimist, but as the saying goes, "Fool me once..."



Hmm... a shame you feel that way. I do see your point but TLG is certainly not the only company responsible for misprints and such. As to getting some of the stuff corrected (such as posted a missing map), I think that is one area where speed of action needs to be improved. I don't mind errors (being misprint or errata)... they happen no matter what size company you're dealing with however a faster turn around would be nice. Maybe a factor with that is because they are a smaller company.

As far as misprints go, the worse job I've seen recently was with Marvel Comics. I had picked up the 'Civil War' Trade Back a while ago but only got to finally reading it last night... There is something like 15 pages missing from the last chapter. A definite misprint which couldn't have occurred in a worse spot of the story (the final battle). It's been long enough since I've gotten it that I'm stuck with it... I can either buy a new copy of the trade (listed as $25.00 US or $40.00 CDN) or track down issue 7 of the limited series...

I tried doing a search since I figure I couldn't be the only person with the issue and nothing... I'm stuck and there isn't much I can do about it.

C'est la vie!

Moriarty the Red
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:05 am
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Ungern

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Quote:
moriarty777 wrote:
Hmm... a shame you feel that way. I do see your point but TLG is certainly not the only company responsible for misprints and such. As to getting some of the stuff corrected (such as posted a missing map), I think that is one area where speed of action needs to be improved. I don't mind errors (being misprint or errata)... they happen no matter what size company you're dealing with however a faster turn around would be nice. Maybe a factor with that is because they are a smaller company.



Sorry, I don't buy the 'small company' excuse any more. Eden studios did not put a character sheet in the back of their Conspiracy X game a few years ago. People complained, and it was up on the website within a few days. Eden Studios is two full time employees, and they were juggling multiple game lines, and "Big Media" licenses at the same time.

How long have people been waiting for the Trolls to put up the missing maps from A4 or whatever it was? Hell, when I bought my copies, I tried emailing them to get it fixed and never heard back. I eventually just sold all my C&C modules on ebay, and won't be buying more in the forseeable future.

Now, before people think I'm some sort of "C&C Hater" or something, let me say I'm most assuredly not. I love the system, and still own the two 'core' books (and will probably be getting the 3rd/2nd reprints soon). I just don't feel like buying any supplements to the game past those main books (and the CKG, I suppose) until the Trolls get their quality standards up.

Hell, I've got a shelf full of old XD&D supplements, and my own fevered brain to draw from for inspiration. I'd love to give the Trolls more money to support this game, but I just don't feel like doing so until I know that the book I buy today will not be 'fixed and reprinted' in a year from now. I don't feel I should have to spend $10 to beta test their modules for them.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:23 am
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Renegade Mage
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Quote:
zomben wrote:
Sorry, I don't buy the 'small company' excuse any more. Eden studios did not put a character sheet in the back of their Conspiracy X game a few years ago. People complained, and it was up on the website within a few days. Eden Studios is two full time employees, and they were juggling multiple game lines, and "Big Media" licenses at the same time.

How long have people been waiting for the Trolls to put up the missing maps from A4 or whatever it was? Hell, when I bought my copies, I tried emailing them to get it fixed and never heard back. I eventually just sold all my C&C modules on ebay, and won't be buying more in the forseeable future.

Now, before people think I'm some sort of "C&C Hater" or something, let me say I'm most assuredly not. I love the system, and still own the two 'core' books (and will probably be getting the 3rd/2nd reprints soon). I just don't feel like buying any supplements to the game past those main books (and the CKG, I suppose) until the Trolls get their quality standards up.

Hell, I've got a shelf full of old XD&D supplements, and my own fevered brain to draw from for inspiration. I'd love to give the Trolls more money to support this game, but I just don't feel like doing so until I know that the book I buy today will not be 'fixed and reprinted' in a year from now. I don't feel I should have to spend $10 to beta test their modules for them.



No... I wouldn't assume you're a C&C hater. The fact that you've stuck with the core set and are planning to pick up a copy of the CKG is evidence enough that you like the rule set... that and the fact you can use all that older XD&D stuff you mentioned.

I'm in agreement with the 'turn around issue'. As far as a company size is concerned... you may see a company, big or small, have certain failings (the point I tried to make with Marvel). I really don't know what goes on 'within' TLG and the same goes for all these other gaming companies.

Are some of these small companies biting off more than they can chew? Who knows... Is it just a question of a need to re-assess priorities? Don't know either.

Bottom line... I know what you're getting at. Improving on the quality of their releases can only be a good thing for them and by succeeding this, everybody wins! Buying something which is missing something like a map is a pretty big irritant for me and that was one biggie (U3 - The Verdant Rage for me though I heard about some problems with a few of another). The misprint in the Miasmal Worms was also irritating but easy enough to work around.

Although I'm sure there is going to be some errata for the CKG, I'm hoping that it will be on a lesser scale when compared to the first printings for the PHB and M&T.

M
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:54 am
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Ulthal

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the thing that worries me about the ckg, and for that matter this big gencon push, is that it 'feels' rushed - which IMO for TLG, does not bode well for the quality of the work. I'm really worried honestly about the CZ folio, and the Erde gazetteer because these both require substantial troll effort, which appears to be spread across something like 13 products they would like to have ready for gencon...

I hope I'm wrong, but history and all that...

cheers,

J.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:06 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
moriarty777 wrote:
Although I'm sure there is going to be some errata for the CKG, I'm hoping that it will be on a lesser scale when compared to the first printings for the PHB and M&T.



I certainly hope so. Because if the CKG has as many problems as their other books, that will most certainly be the last book of theirs I buy for a very long time.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:35 pm
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Quote:
moriarty777 wrote:
The misprint in the Miasmal Worms was also irritating but easy enough to work around.


See how easy it is!! Wyrms

For the most part I don't have issues with the modules or the books anymore. Major problems have corrected, errata added and quality improved.

Same issues that ALL companies have.

Incidentally, XD&D modules and books have been riddled with errors and have multitudes of errata.

Yes, typos, missing maps or other info is irritating, but is usually corrected.

For me content is king and several C&C modules rank up there with some BAD&D mods, IMO.

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Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:04 pm
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Quote:
Rhuvein wrote:
See how easy it is!! Wyrms


OMG !!

I was tired and it was late (well past midnight). But yes... a silly mistake which somehow slipped me buy! (ok... that last one was deliberate).

M
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:03 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
zomben wrote:
^QFT.

I have to say, as much as I like C&C, the Trolls have effectively lost me as a customer for 'first prints' of anything short of the core books. After I bought a few modules which didn't have maps printed in them, and seeing lots of other errata and 'fixes' threads, I just don't feel like giving them any more money until they get their act together.

Add to that, that when problems do arise, the Trolls are slow as molasses to get the fixes out (have they posted PDFs of those missing module maps yet?) it makes me much less interested in shelling out more money for their stuff.

I'll still pick up the CKG if it ever comes out, but I have to say I'm expecting it to be full of errors. Hate to be a pessimist, but as the saying goes, "Fool me once..."



There is a missing map hosted over on Dragonsfoot. I believe you can dowload it even without signing up to be a DF member. It should be up on the TLG website, but I don't remember seeing it there yet.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:36 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
Treebore wrote:
There is a missing map hosted over on Dragonsfoot. I believe you can dowload it even without signing up to be a DF member. It should be up on the TLG website, but I don't remember seeing it there yet.



Sure. But if you ask me, it's sort of lame that a 'fan site' is hosting a file which the publisher should have put in their downloads section as soon as they found out about the problem.

Anyone who bought that module, and doesn't come to these forums to dig around and find this information on where to download it is just SOL.

I am glad, however, that I stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. From what people are saying here, the TLG quality control is getting better. I'll be keeping my eye on their stuff in the future, and if there's material they produce which looks good, I'll be picking it up.

I guess I should ammend my 'lost me as a customer except on Core Books' comment earlier. They've lost me as a 'pre-order' or 'pick it up the day it hits stores' customer. From now on, I'll wait to hear how any given product turns out on release, and if necessary, wait fo ra revised version.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:40 pm
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Mogrl

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Your comparison with Eden Studios is not equal. Tell me how they fixed their in print products faster than TLG and I'll see an equal comparison.

Posting a DL that they already had made and just forgot to add to the print run is very different. Plus TLG has given "fixed" modules, in the case of the missing maps, to anyone who called or successfully e-mailed them.

TLG is also notorious for having e-mail problems. They have posted how its actually an AOL problem and how their system filters.

So if you really want to get things fixed call them. They even posted to call them and they would get you a copy of the module that has the map in it.

SO TLG does make any effort to fix things. Much more of an effort than you have apparently heard about on these messageboards.

As for the typo mistakes, missed descriptions (the Thune Hound in HH), they won't be able to address unless they sell out and second prints get run.

Or you come to these messageboards and the author posts a description and then several illo's he did up of how he imagined the Thune to look.

So the vast majoriy of C&C fans don't come to these messageboards, presumably, so they will never see any of the fixes available.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:49 pm
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Renegade Mage
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The one thing I'd like to point out regarding the issue with the missing map is that the one that is being hosted on Dragonsfoot is not an 'official' map from TLG which is probably why it is on a fan site. Don't get me wrong, seeing that the source of the map is the author, it is certainly usable.

However, it was added to a list of things that needed to get done but didn't which led to the 'fan initiative'. The module came out in late 2006. The problem was initially posted by Zomben back in February 2007 and 'bumped' a few times leading well into May. At the beginning of June, Sieg with Morty's help got an unofficial one set up.

One question though: the PDF version of the Verdant Rage posted on RPG Now, -- does it happen to have the missing map or does it also need to be updated?

So... certainly some food for thought. This isn't a question of email problems and was something brought to TLG's attention.

Moriarty the Red
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:01 pm
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Mogrl

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I agree that the Trolls can do better, every publishing company can, but the Trolls have been putting all their energy into making GenCon deadlines.

As I said, and I may be confusing it with another module, there is a map available in print, if you call the Trolls, successfully, and tell them about your problem.

Only Sieg and Morty may know the specifics of that.

I don't know about the PDF. I know the initial "Quickstart" PDF is missing the map for the included adventure, and I don't know if that has even been fixed. Hopefully, after GenCon, the Trolls will dedicate time to cleaning up such issues.

And still get the CKG out in the "Fall".
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:25 pm
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Renegade Mage
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Quote:
Treebore wrote:
I agree that the Trolls can do better, every publishing company can, but the Trolls have been putting all their energy into making GenCon deadlines.

As I said, and I may be confusing it with another module, there is a map available in print, if you call the Trolls, successfully, and tell them about your problem.

Only Sieg and Morty may know the specifics of that.

I don't know about the PDF. I know the initial "Quickstart" PDF is missing the map for the included adventure, and I don't know if that has even been fixed. Hopefully, after GenCon, the Trolls will dedicate time to cleaning up such issues.

And still get the CKG out in the "Fall".



We can all hope so!
M
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:28 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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The quality of the modules has improved markedly lately as well. I wouldn't worry too much about the CKG at this point. I know they are not trying to rush it. Davis and Steve have both stated to me that they want it to be high quality and chock-full of material so they are deliberately not rushing it. Time will tell and all that, but my hopes are high. High enough that I've offered my assistance on the project to help make sure it's as good a product as they want it to be.

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Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 pm
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Ungern

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You know, I just want to apologize if I came off like a jerk earlier, which I probably did.

My frustration simply stems from the fact that I really enjoy C&C. It's a great game, and I'm itching to play/run it more than any game I've come across in quite some time.

Simply, if I thought the game was lame, I wouldn't even get worked up over the sorts of 'problems' I mentioned earlier. However, I do indeed really enjoy C&C, and want it to be the best it can be.


Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:24 pm
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