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Lore Drake
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Post Completely new
This post is a release of some pent up rage/angst and a plea for a point in the right direction.

I have always loved role-playing games, but was never given the opportunity to play a good pnp session because of my mother's fear (gasp) of role-playing games. (Never-mind every kid growing up role-plays being something whether it is a doctor, fireman, policeman, or a sword swinging dragon slaying demi-human.) This ultimately means I have no quantifiable role-playing experience. However, to satiate my appetite I secretly read various rule books and modules when my mother was not looking. This has carried over into my adult life (not so secretly now), but I am no longer content with simply reading rules. I want to play, but the only person I have to play with is my wife (who has even less experience than me if that is possible). This means I must CK. I have read the quickstart rules and recently ordered the PHB and MT (but have to wait for them to ship since they are not back from the press yet) and I own several old AD&D modules that I successfully hid from my mother as she purge my hidden stash of role-playing treasures. This leads me to my questions........

What modules are recommended as good starting point for a new CK and his wife to begin familiarizing themselves with the rules and applying them?

How easy will it be to covert the AD&D mods I was able to save to C&C? I would love to actually play them. Could some one provide an example of a stat block conversion for me?

(Sorry for any typos but its late and I am tired.)


Thu May 31, 2007 4:09 am
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Mogrl

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I would suggest using The Rising Knight. It is free, and was intended (as it came with the box set) as an intro to C&C, so it makes a great beginning thing. As for the use of AD&D modules...

You need to change what a "save against" is, like, for example, if it says "save against death" that means "Charisma save" or "Constitution save" depending on how you want to resolve it (basically, is it a spiritual/magical attack, or a purely physical one?). If it doesn't have one listed, because its just a spell (AD&D Assumes all spells are save against spell, unless stated otherwise) then pick an attribute that seems to be best applied -- this done only for those spells that don't already exist in C&C, 'cause if they do, use the C&C versions.

Monster stat-block wise, all you have to do is invert AC (subtract the AD&D listed from 20) and decide if the monster has Physical, Mental, Neither, or Both as Prime, generally based on the description of the monster. For movement rate: multiply it by 2.5 to get feet/round. Determine SR (that is the equivalent to AD&D MR) by dividing the listed MR% by 5, and adding it to 11. In most cases, you can just use the C&C version of the monster, but if its something unique to the module (as far as C&C is concerned) then do what I just stated.

Other things, like a penalty to a skill check (like a -30% find traps) would turn into C&C difficulties, at a difficulty of 1 per 5%. Something like a "bend bars" is much harder to quantify as they are based on PC stats, rather than penalties (sometimes you'll see a bend bars with a penalty, but that's less common) so you'll have to determine a difficulty for the Strength check -- I recommend rolling 1d10 (on a <3 , the difficulty is 1d4 lower than the PCs level; on a 3 - 7 the difficulty is zero, and on a 8+, the difficulty is 1d4 higher than the level of the PC.) [In fact, I have a different way, but I can't post it, sorry.] If this kind of ability check has a listed penalty, use the aforementioned way of increasing it.

Sounds like a bit, but after a few tries, you'll get the hang of it. Its much simpler than it seems, especially if you've not ever played before.


Thu May 31, 2007 4:29 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Try Skype games as well; there are hundreds of players and CKs alike looking for games.

As far as adventures, I'd go with Enon Tor.

...and first edition modules are so easy to convert it's laughable: all it took was getting out of my d20 mindset, and listening to the supportive voices on these forums...

Great crowd o' people here.

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Thu May 31, 2007 4:40 am
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
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You make me wish I had room in my SKYPE game for you and your wife.

The key is to not worry about the rules to the point where they dampen the fun too much. Sounds easy, but its much harder in practice.

So I say find a well structured module that pretty much lays things out to the point where you think you know how to handle everything.

I don't think you should start with "A1 Blacktooth Ridge". Even though it is written pretty well you will being missing a lot this modules "greatness" because of how much potential you can get out of it as an experienced CK.

Then again, I can say the same about most modules.

How about telling me what modules you already own? Then I can tell you which one, or ones, to start with, etc...

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Thu May 31, 2007 5:34 am
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Hlobane Orc
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to the crusade!

Follow Serl's suggestions. He's written the book on conversion (seriously!)

Good luck!
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Thu May 31, 2007 10:54 am
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Red Cap

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I guess most people do the conversion on the fly, as Serleran has mentioned.

My suggestion for a first adventure is The Beacon of Enon Tor because it's simple, and it's short enough for one evening of gaming. I had trouble finding a link to a pdf of this adventure when I went looking for it, so let me include one for you:
http://tower.newcenturycomputers.net/temp/beacon.pdf

Rising Knight is an awesome adventure, but since it's a little more free-form and quite a bit longer than Beacon, I plan on running after my players have a little more experience with the game.

Oh! And as it is customary to say around here, welcome to the Crusade!


Thu May 31, 2007 12:37 pm
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Unkbartig

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Howdy do!

...nothing to add, just saying "Hi"!
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Thu May 31, 2007 2:24 pm
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Lore Drake

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Quote:
serleran wrote:
.

Determine SR (that is the equivalent to AD&D MR) by dividing the listed MR% by 5, and adding it to 11. .



You do not add 11 to the result do you? This would give a creature that was 50% MR in AD&D a spell resistance of 21, which is impossible to beat on a straight d20 roll.
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Thu May 31, 2007 2:56 pm
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Mogrl

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That was a typo. It should have been (MR / 5) + 1, not 11. So a 50% AD&D MR becomes a SR of 11. A MR of 100% becomes 21. Sorry. I should have previewed the post.


Thu May 31, 2007 3:17 pm
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Ulthal
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If you are looking for a good beginner module nothing beats B2 keep on the borderlands IMO.


Thu May 31, 2007 4:38 pm
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Skobbit

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Welcome Nwelte1.

I am currently running my sons through the free C&C module "Lion in the Ropes". I think it is very well written and more story/roleplay than dungeon crawl. I thought it was a very good starting point to get them involved in role-playing. Gradually I will increase the level of combat until I feel they are comfortable with the system. I am hoping to tie this story into "A Rising Knight".


Thu May 31, 2007 6:23 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
concobar wrote:
If you are looking for a good beginner module nothing beats B2 keep on the borderlands IMO.



I'm hoping this is one of the "old ones" he says he has. In other words, I agree.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Thu May 31, 2007 6:42 pm
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Hlobane Orc

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Another good one is Goodman's DCC Into the Wilds. Its D20, and requires a little conversion, but its very Keep on the Borderlands-ish.


Thu May 31, 2007 7:08 pm
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Quote:
greytale wrote:
Welcome Nwelte1.

I am currently running my sons through the free C&C module "Lion in the Ropes". I think it is very well written and more story/roleplay than dungeon crawl. I thought it was a very good starting point to get them involved in role-playing. Gradually I will increase the level of combat until I feel they are comfortable with the system. I am hoping to tie this story into "A Rising Knight".



Nice. I've run my group through RN and AoBtR and hope to run "Lion" after we finish Dark Chateau.

Hehe, they all fit . . . somehow!!
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Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:55 am
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Lore Drake

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Quote:
greytale wrote:
Welcome Nwelte1.

I am currently running my sons through the free C&C module "Lion in the Ropes". I think it is very well written and more story/roleplay than dungeon crawl. I thought it was a very good starting point to get them involved in role-playing. Gradually I will increase the level of combat until I feel they are comfortable with the system. I am hoping to tie this story into "A Rising Knight".



Should be easy to tie the two together. I'd just place Capendu on the Drunderry river south of Malforten, and have Garrick's band be allied with or part of Gritznak's.
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Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:41 pm
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Lore Drake
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Thanks for all of the helpful posts.

The modules I have am sure are not made for starting play.

Temple of Ele.

Queen of Spiders

Tomb of Horrors

I also have some 3rd ed. stuff but never really cared for the modules I bought.

I may have to buy the entire B line fo modules, since everyone seems to recommend that line.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:06 pm
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Ulthal
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B1 in search of the unknown and B2 keep on the borderlands are four bucks each on paizo for the PDFs.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:21 pm
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Mogrl

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The "B" series is for "basic," so they are quite easily adaptable, and extremely fun at the same time. Another that would be good, I believe, is N4: Treasure Hunt (I think that's right...) or many of the very low level mods, most of which are either free (check WotC's pre-d20 downloads) or can be found on the cheap via pdf or on eBay as print products (some items can be expensive, though.)

Of course, you have S1: Tomb of Horrors... can't go wrong with that. ;) I would readily suggest getting T1 or T1-4.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:08 pm
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Lore Drake
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If I grab the B1-9 In search for adventure from Paizo will I be missing anything that I would normally get if I just bought the B series one at a time?

Isn't T1-4 The temple of elemental evil. I have that and read through it. Seems like it might be tough to CK for a new CK and tough to survive in for my wife. She needs to get the hang fo the rules before I really make her earn her way through the game.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:44 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
nwelte1 wrote:
If I grab the B1-9 In search for adventure from Paizo will I be missing anything that I would normally get if I just bought the B series one at a time?

Isn't T1-4 The temple of elemental evil. I have that and read through it. Seems like it might be tough to CK for a new CK and tough to survive in for my wife. She needs to get the hang fo the rules before I really make her earn her way through the game.



Buy the B1-9

Temple is a tough one to run, hard to not have it feel like a drudgery.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:15 pm
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Unkbartig

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Not to toot my own horn, but I do think TLG's U1 Shadows of the Halfling Hall is a pretty good starter module. Its got varying methods of play depending on what you want to emphasize. Want Mystery? Its there. Want PC-NPC interactions? Its there. Just want a straight dungeon crawl? Its there.

...but I'm biased. Either way, good luck and you really can't go wrong with the B1-9; though some of those are mid-level mods (despite the "B" labling). But it'll give you several possible paths for further adventure.
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Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:02 am
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Mogrl

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Quote:
Quote:
Isn't T1-4 The temple of elemental evil.



Yes, but T1 is just the Village of Hommlet, which is much easier to run, as T1-4 is more a campaign/mini-setting than a single module, really. I simply suggested it because it is an excellent module, and worth having, especially since S1 was already in the collection. Heck, another good module for starting is Temple of the Frog (not the re-released, "full" version) but that might be a bit more out there... or, maybe, even the starter dungeon from, I think, the Mentzer basic set.


Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:11 pm
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Lore Drake
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Is there a difference between T-1 on its own as compared to T1-4 combined?


Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:33 pm
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Mogrl

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Yes, a massive difference. T1 is not the full-fledged Temple of Elemental Evil, whereas T1-4 is. Basically, T1 is the first "chapter" of T1-4, so to speak, making it much more stand-alone. Its pretty much just a little town with a problem... that problem becomes much more evident in T1-4, but T1 is much easier to have as a "base" and expand as you see fit (not that T1-4 isn't easy to do that with, but you don't get the overhang of Temple with pure T1).

So, yeah, scope and size is vastly different between the two.


Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:52 pm
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Lore Drake
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I grabbed B-2 after everyone's suggestion. Read through most of it and like what I see. But I have another question.

How do you know what the to hit bonus is if converting D&D to C&C? For example, the Owlbear in 34 has the following stats:

AC5, HD5, hp 30m #AT 3, D 1-8/1-8/1-8, MV (40), Save F 3, ML 12.

But what is its to hit bonus? Bare in mind that I never played any meaningful session of D&D.


Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:08 pm
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Maukling
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Quote:
nwelte1 wrote:
I grabbed B-2 after everyone's suggestion. Read through most of it and like what I see. But I have another question.

How do you know what the to hit bonus is if converting D&D to C&C? For example, the Owlbear in 34 has the following stats:

AC5, HD5, hp 30m #AT 3, D 1-8/1-8/1-8, MV (40), Save F 3, ML 12.

But what is its to hit bonus? Bare in mind that I never played any meaningful session of D&D.



HD 5. That would make his to hit bonus +5

Remember, the to hit bonus for C&C monsters, in the main, is the number of HD.

In AD&D, the HD was multiplied by 8 or some such number to determine hit points rolled.
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:12 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
Quote:
In AD&D, the HD was multiplied by 8 or some such number to determine hit points rolled.



Well, not quite. In AD&D, a creature typically uses d8 for HD, so the average of the roll is 4.5 per die. Most also had some modifier to this, like 3d8+2 or whatever, the +2 added to the total, like normal, rather than 3 * (1d8+2) like 3.X D&D does. Anyway, what that means, basically, is that you can determine the general number of HD by dividing by 4.5 from whatever the HP is. So, if you have 30 HP, divide by 4.5 = 6. However, that statline already lists HD... it says HD5 (that means 5 hit dice.) So, based on the difference, the creature has above average HP for its type (it rolled an average of 6 per d8, rather than the normal 4-5, or it got a bonus like +6).

But, to be clear: use the monster's HD as the attack bonus, unless you have a reason to not. If, for some reason the HD is not listed, decide what HD type it uses (d4, d6, d8, d10, or d12), and divide HD by the average of that die (2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 or 6.5).

Lastly, use the C&C version of any monster, since it cuts down on the number of "conversions" needed.


Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:25 pm
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Lore Drake
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Planning on using C7C versions, but I have to wait for my books to arrive. In the mean time, I plan to play B-2 with the quickstart rules. Thanks for the help.


Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:40 pm
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Maukling
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
Well, not quite. In AD&D, a creature typically uses d8 for HD,



Thats what I said! LOL
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Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:18 am
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Mogrl

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Heh, not exactly what you said. You said "multiplied" and not "the number of dice used." Otherwise, one might think a 5 HD monster gets 40 HP, automatically.


Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:32 am
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