An idea for the Trolls

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zomben
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An idea for the Trolls

Post by zomben »

Hey,

So, I'm prepping a couple of modules to run with my pals. We tend to use some sort of miniatures when we game, not to the manic-detailed extent of D&D 3.x, but just to sort out 'where's my guy? Is my line of sight to the troll blocked?' kind of situations.

Lots of other folks use minis too, I'm sure. Which got me to thinking, it would be really cool in the modules TLG does to have an appendix in the back of "What figures you need for this module". Now, I don't propose that you list specific minis, or try to break into the minis market yourself.

But rather, a list like:

For this module, you would need the following:

10x Orcs with hand weapons

5 x Orcs with bows

4x Bugbears

1x Bugbear hero

1x Bugbear mage/cleric/shaman

4x warthogs

2x swarms of stirges

Etc.

Me, personally I tend to only use painted minis for PCs and important NPCs, using Fiery Dragon's digital counter packs to print out counters for everything else. When prepping a module, I tend to go through the entire thing note all the encounters and then tally up how many of each type of opponents I'll need (so, if a module features a total of 40 orcs, but the most I'll need at one time is 15, I'll only print 15).

Anyway, I think this would be a great idea. YMMV, of course.

Ben

jman5000
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Post by jman5000 »

I voted no. I'd rather that space be used to add a new magic item or a new monster. If I wanted to know how many orcs there was, I'd just find the largest battle with orcs in the module and make sure I had that many figures on hand.

I normally chalk this stuff up to prep time for the module.

Cheers,

J.

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Post by Omote »

Eh, not much importance in this aspect to the module for me.

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Post by moriarty777 »

Once of the things that led me to C&C was trying to find a 3.x rules variant where miniatures were *optional*. This was not to say that they are bad, but I saw that the complexity regarding tactical combat was one of the big problems I had with 3.x

Since I've started running various adventures with C&C this past summer, I have not used any minis. On only three occasions, I have drafted up a quick sketch to show rough placement of people and creatures in context of the room.

On those rare occasions, it might be nice to use them on a map, for visual reference (no grids)... but so far, I found that it's been simpler and easy enough to get on by without them. I'd prefer that space in the module be used for something else too.

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Post by serleran »

The way I see it, a properly executed module design does not have a preset number of possible miniatures needed, because it should range from none to tons, especially when it comes to random encounters, and events that can be bypassed, ignored, or otherwise turned into non-combat situations. I do not want a module to advertise itself as a "hack-fetish" by stipulating "you must use 3000 orcs with worgs" unless it is much more than a module, like a mini-boardgame or wargame combined.

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Post by Treebore »

Zomben,

I am much like you. Metal Miniatures for PC's and FD counters for everything else.

But to be honest, the Trolls are challenged enough to get product out as it is. Do you really want to add more math to the whole thing?
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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pineappleleader
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Post by pineappleleader »

Treebore wrote:
Zomben,

I am much like you. Metal Miniatures for PC's and FD counters for everything else.

But to be honest, the Trolls are challenged enough to get product out as it is. Do you really want to add more math to the whole thing?

I agree with Treebore. Better let the Trolls alone to do the work they have now.

I do use minis when I game. "You see before you, a Gelatinous Cube, cleverly disguised as a large d6."

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Post by Rigon »

I have to agree with everyone else, I'd rather save the space for more adventure content.

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Post by Omote »

pineappleleader wrote:
I do use minis when I game. "You see before you, a Gelatinous Cube, cleverly disguised as a large d6."

Haha! All of my enemies on the battle mat are usually represented with d6's. For years I was on a search to find the perfect d6's to represent different kinds of monsters and enemies. For example, I found the perfect dice to represent kobolds, humaoin frogs, hill giants, etc, etc. Now, this is pretty much the only wau I represent fighting on the grid.

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Post by Jynx »

Nope!

I love Minis, don't have time to paint them so I use the WOTC minis, but do not use the WOTC rules when RPGing. When I prep for an encounter, I just pull out the minis I need when I need them. So there is no need to have a list at the end of a module. I would much rather see a beautifully drawn map or just save the space / cost. As I read the module, I'll make mental note of what minis to use.

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Post by Omote »

Mini's sure make the game look neat on the table-top, that is for sure. But one reason I always liked using dice is because of big battles with lots o' enemies. This way I can keep track of HP on baddies using the pips or numbers on the die. Just divide the number of HPs by 6, and you know how badly injured a bad guy is. Plus, PCs are usually killers and would understand when enemies are becoming closer, and closer to death (the declining numbers on the enemy dice).

For monsters like oozes, slimes and jellies, I almost always leave the dice number on a 6. Because it's simply too hard to tell how much damage is being inflicted on such creatures.

This has been my mode of thought on the subject for a while. Plus it gives the players the opportunity to imagine the creatures how they want.

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jman5000
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Post by jman5000 »

that's pretty cool Omote...

I might have to do something like that. I've always had a hard time remembering where Orc #2 w. 3 HP's left is from round to round when its just written on some scrap paper.

Cheers,

J.

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Post by Omote »

Yeah this way has worked well for me, and as I stated above using d6's with different colors really healps when those battles have many different types of enemies. The color difference also makes it easy for the GM to tell the different baddies apart from one another.

For this I use the standard battle mat. For dice I use 12mm d6s to represent small foes on the grid, 16mm (standard size) dice to represent the medium or normal sized foes. Finally I use the bigger D6s to represent to big bad boys; trolls, giants, dragons, etc.

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Post by Traveller »

I've been known to use counters from old editions of Risk (I, II, III, V, X) to show placement. New editions of Risk, unless I'm mistaken, aren't as useful because their counters are more like tiny plastic soldiers and cannons.
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Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

I voted no. After seeing the increasingly mini-centric direction of D&D, I doubt I could stomach any such presence in C&C.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

I voted yes since I think It would be a novel idea. But, I can understnd wanting the space for spells, magic items and monsters. As an alternative I'd like to see the Trolls produce a set of counters or paper based mini's for C&C.
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Post by Rigon »

Julian Grimm wrote:
I voted yes since I think It would be a novel idea. But, I can understnd wanting the space for spells, magic items and monsters. As an alternative I'd like to see the Trolls produce a set of counters or paper based mini's for C&C.

Which would be cool.

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Post by Inkpot »

I actually had a bad experience using minis with C&C - everyone in the group suddenly reverted back to their D&D 3.5 neurosis and wanted to over-complicate the battles, turning a 15 minute frackas into a 45 minute ordeal.
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Post by Omote »

Julian Grimm wrote:
As an alternative I'd like to see the Trolls produce a set of counters or paper based mini's for C&C.

Has anybody actually used paper minis?! I admit that I picked up a few sets in the past, but never used them. At my FLGS and all of the groups I play or CK I have never seen or heard anybody actually use paper minis. Just saying.

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Post by Treebore »

I use the Fiery Dragon counters/paper mini's. When I run SR they have those stand up paper mini's with the black plastic bases that they stand up with. I forget how I got those. Maybe it has to do with me realizing I got those about 10+ years ago.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Post by Julian Grimm »

Omote wrote:
Has anybody actually used paper minis?! I admit that I picked up a few sets in the past, but never used them. At my FLGS and all of the groups I play or CK I have never seen or heard anybody actually use paper minis. Just saying.

........................................................Omote

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I have made some of my own with cardstock and cardboard bases. They work quiet well unless there is a cieling fan above the table but that may mean I need heavier bases though.
It's soimething I would like to see since I haven't the time or money to pursue pewter anymore.
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Post by serleran »

Actually, if you just lace several sheets (like 3) of cardstock together, or just put it on some cardboard, it works pretty well. For myself, I've taken to using balsa wood as a support structure for buildings and whatnot. Of course, the paper minis need to be a bit darker so he wood doesn't show through... but, its got tat need side effect of being realistically flammable for when fireballs go awry.

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Post by Julian Grimm »

serleran wrote:
Actually, if you just lace several sheets (like 3) of cardstock together, or just put it on some cardboard, it works pretty well. For myself, I've taken to using balsa wood as a support structure for buildings and whatnot. Of course, the paper minis need to be a bit darker so he wood doesn't show through... but, its got tat need side effect of being realistically flammable for when fireballs go awry.

That could make for interesting games. I'll try the balsa wood idea also.

Just so everyone knows I usually capture images off the net and resize them for mini's. I also have been known to use aquarium decor for structures and larger plants etc. Cheap, yes. But it works until some decent paper mini's or a good C&C based true type font comes out for mini making.
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Post by Molotov »

I like to use me some maps and Dwarven Forge when 'delving, so I enjoy using counters and minis.

That said, as vanilla old school fantasy, C&C conveniently has a wide array of after-market products available from others - Fiery Dragon, Reaper, D&D prepaints, Sparks font minis all come to mind.

I think the Troll Lords should stay out of the minis and counter set, except perhaps to broker license to put their name on existing 3rd party stuff (Paizo, Fiery Dragon, etc.).

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Post by zomben »

Molotov wrote:
I like to use me some maps and Dwarven Forge when 'delving, so I enjoy using counters and minis.

That said, as vanilla old school fantasy, C&C conveniently has a wide array of after-market products available from others - Fiery Dragon, Reaper, D&D prepaints, Sparks font minis all come to mind.

I think the Troll Lords should stay out of the minis and counter set, except perhaps to broker license to put their name on existing 3rd party stuff (Paizo, Fiery Dragon, etc.).

I agree. My idea was simply to have a list at the back of each module letting you know what figures/counters would be useful for the adventure. I've got the Firey Dragon CC Digital, so it's a breeze for me to print up all the counters I'd need for any given scenario. Just having a quick list to hand would make it that much easier to jump right in.

Getting into the miniatures market at this point is sort of fruitless. It'd make far more sense for the Trolls to simply license out the C&C logo to a company like Reaper, or whoever and have licensed figs. TSR itself learned the hard way that trying to do both minis and RPGs was a losing proposition (of course, the TSR-produced minis were completely terrible, as well...).

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