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Dark Dungeons Deluxe
https://trolllord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16843
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Author:  Peter [ Thu May 11, 2017 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I've been working on a reformated and expanded version of Dark Dungeons. The plan is to cram as much as possible from the BECMI supplements into 750 pages.
Here is the current version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhjq7xuzarrh2 ... s.pdf?dl=1


Changes So Far

Layout
Reduced to 2-column layout
Different color choices
Header and footer images
Color class and monster art
New Cover
Spellchecked for American English
Changed equals seperated tables to real tables
Moved Magic Item Creation sections to Treasure chapter
Merged duplicate info
Removed Into Dark Dungeons, Effects of Damage, Restoring the Petrified and Restoring Life Energy sections

Classes
New Classes: Gnome (PC2)
New Subclasses: Aquatic Elf (PC3), Assassin (RC[Thug]), Bard (DRG177), Berserker (RC[Monster]), Charioteer (HWR2), Dervish (GAZ2), Half-Elf (DRG178)
Druids are now a full class (DRGN177)
Thief ability progression to level 14 reverted to expert set. After level 14 progresses similarly to RC
Demi-humans get ability score adjustments (GAZ10,AD&D)
Statblocks rather than repitive text
Condensed and integrated the Immortal class and moved to the Classes chapter
Reverted the Demi-human extended level XP to the official XP

Skills
New Skills: Snares (RC)

Equipment
New Equipment: Bagh naka (IMAG24), Boomerang (DRG186), Chakram (X5), Flail (BS1P), Kite Shield (GAZ15), Lasso (GAZ12), Morning Star (BS1P), Rapier (DRG175), Shoes (RC), Small Shield (GAZ15), Stiletto (HWR3), Swordstick (IMAGSE), Tower Shield (GAZ15)
Miniature/Giant Weapons (PC1, PC2)

Spells
Elves have a new spell list with some new spells (GAZ5)
Some spells now function differently when cast underwater (PC3)
New Spells: Create Time Gate (Immortal's Companion), Earth to Air (Iron Urchin), Water to Ice (Ice Spider), Time Travel (Immortal's Companion)

Monsters
New Monsters: Bhut (DMR2), Bird of Prey, Giant Shrew (RC), Spook (Lesser Haunt, DMR2), Nomad (RC), Trader (RC)
Changed Lesser Phoenix to Firebird (I12+MCSA2)
Changed Small Roc to Giant Bird of Prey
Renamed Lesser Djinni to Djinni, Lesser Efreeti to Efreeti
Renamed Wind Walker to Aerial Servant (Swords & Wizardry uses it without Tome of Horrors attribution so it may be generic enough to use)
Renamed Dragonion to Drake (From mythology, another word for dragon)
Size statblock entry added
Monsters as Classes: Bugbear (GAZ10), Centaur (PC1), Dryad (PC1), Gnoll (GAZ10), Goblin (GAZ10), Kobold (GAZ10), Hobgoblin (GAZ10), Lizardfolk (Drgn185), Neanderthal (Drgn118), Nixie (PC1), Ogre (GAZ10), Orc (GAZ10), Pixie (PC1), Sprite (PC1), Troll (GAZ10), Wood Drake (PC1)
Removed Berserker, it is now a class

Other
Renamed Heatvision to Infravision (Infravision is used in other RPGs, so it should not violate copyright)
Time Travel (Immortal's Companion)

I welcome any contributors. Whether it is a class, spell, rule, etc. As long as it's public domain.
I have a few pieces of art, some of which I paid for. I will be crowdfunding the remaining art once I know whats going to be included. All art will be public domain.

Author:  Aergraith [ Thu May 11, 2017 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

So are you adapting all of the classes from the Gazetteers?

http://stockingthedungeon.blogspot.com/ ... sited.html

Author:  Peter [ Thu May 11, 2017 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Yes, everything I can fit. I have everything BECMI indexed. Well almost everything, my index got corrupted at some point so I have to refind some spells and magic items.

Author:  Aergraith [ Sat May 13, 2017 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

This has the potential to be awfully cool. Dark Dungeons is already pretty amazing, though I stopped using it as I decided I didn't like the RC optional rules very much.

Author:  Peter [ Sun May 14, 2017 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I'm working on reversing some of it to Core RC. Which optional rules do you dislike? I'm not sure about reversing Skills and Weapon Mastery. Later supplements and articles reference them quite a bit, implying that if there was an official RC update at some point they would be core.

Author:  Aergraith [ Sun May 14, 2017 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Peter wrote:
I'm working on reversing some of it to Core RC. Which optional rules do you dislike? I'm not sure about reversing Skills and Weapon Mastery. Later supplements and articles reference them quite a bit, implying that if there was an official RC update at some point they would be core.


Danger Sense was the only skill I think I had a problem with and it's not in DD.
Weapon Mastery was the optional rule I didn't like to use, but it did move more smoothly in DD.
I liked the Dark Dungeons initiative but I recall the players not embracing it.

Anyway, none of my opinions should result in you changing anything :).

Author:  Peter [ Sun May 14, 2017 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Classes, spells, skills, and rules are on the top of my todo list. I agree with the author about leaving out skills that replicate class abilities, so those I will be leaving out. I'll keep an eye out for Danger sense.

Ya, I don't see myself using Weapon Mastery or Skills, but even tho they are integrated, they are easy to pass over as nothing seems effected by not using them.

I appreciate opinions, especially for stuff that I'm unsure of or didn't even think of.

What are your thoughts on the repetitive text in Dark Dungeons? (There is a lot of it) I was thinking about canning it and reclaiming quite a bit of pages for use.

Author:  Treebore [ Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I for one hate repetitive text, and it can be removed and replaced with effective indexing. Should I check for an update since you first posted this?

Author:  Peter [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Agreed. The biggest offenders are the classes, some of the monsters and the entire weapon feats chapter.

Yes, it has been updated along with some new class images. I'll update the first post to reflect.

Author:  Treebore [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

You've hyper linked the table of contents! That alone makes this SUPER AWESOME!

Author:  Peter [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Yep, I do that with all the projects I work on. This time around I'm going to hyperlink all table, chapter and spell references too.

Author:  Treebore [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

So you have a final version of the C&C Companion PDF? Last one I got, IIRC, was around 700 pages. Which was probably 2 or more years ago.

Author:  Peter [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I had an in progress version floating around, but I think my hard drive eat it :P After working on the Bluffside stuff I got kind of burnt out on C&C. It is excellent as a step forward, but I'm currently in a step backwards mood :P

What I find interesting about BECMI, is if you take a look at the later supplements, most AD&D rules are covered and there is a lot of stuff not present in AD&D. I know one of the big turnoffs is the Race as Class for some people, but AD&D had race/class restriction which really doesn't leave too many race/class combos missing. Stuff like the Hin Master (Halfing Druid), Dwarf-Cleric, Elven-Magic User fill in the gap.

Author:  Treebore [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Well, if your ever interested in doing some more steps forward, I know I and a few others have copies.

I am fine with race as classes as a setting thing, which it pretty much was with BECMI and then the setting that became Mystara. For general purpose settings, though, I much prefer race then class.

Author:  Gringnr [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

far from an expert here, but I like what you've done. It looks totally pro, and is well laid out/easy to navigate. I don't like race as class, but it's definitely an OSR staple, what are you gonna do?

Author:  Peter [ Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Thanks. I have a few more updates as reflected in my first post.

I've become somewhat interested in how many class combos are missing compared to AD&D. If you take away Half-Orc (as he doesn't exist in BECMI) and the Illusionist (he is really just a Magic-User that casts Illusion spells). Half-Elves (DRG178) can be any human class. Here is a list of the remaining combos. If they have an equivalent than it shows bold next to it.

Dwarf Cleric Dwarf Cleric (GAZ6)
Dwarf Fighter Dwarf
Dwarf Thief
Dwarf Assassin
Elf Cleric
Elf Fighter Elf
Elf Magic-User Elf
Elf Thief
Elf Assassin
Gnome Cleric
Gnome Fighter Gnome (PC2)
Gnome Thief
Gnome Assassin
Halfling Druid Halfling Master (GAZ8)
Halfling Fighter Halfling
Halfling Thief
Human Cleric Cleric
Human Druid Druid (DRG177)
Human Fighter Fighter
Human Paladin Paladin
Human Ranger
Human Magic-User Magic-User
Human Thief Thief
Human Assassin Thug (RC)

That leaves just the following uncounted for.

Ranger
Thief (Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling)
Assassin (Dwarf, Elf, Gnome)

Author:  Peter [ Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Building upon my post above, I came up with this to cover the demi-human thieves. It would definitely count as a house rule which I was looking to avoid, but it helps fill in the gaps betwen D&D and AD&D.

Demi-Human Thieves
Although uncommon in demi-human societies, some demi-humans may go against the grain and become thieves. In doing so they lose all their special abilities except for 1st level hereditary abilities (such as Elfsight) and 1st level environmental abilities (such as Stonelore). Dwarves and gnomes retain their Infravision and Stonelore abilities, elves their Elfsight and Ghoul Immunity abilities, and halflings their Nimble, Small, and Unobtrusive abilities. They suffer a -15% penalty to gained experience for retaining these abilities.

Other than their retained abilities, a demi-human thief functions exactly as the human thief class. They are still considered their original class for other purposes such as ability score modifiers, aging, weight, height, magical effects, etc. Weapon and armor restrictions apply from both the original class and the thief class, but the demi-human thief may use any magic item available to either class.

Demi-human thieves will most likely not stay with their own kind for long, as demi-humans tend to live in tight-knit societies where the thieves' actions will be easily discovered . They will usually relocate to human cities, where the population is unintegrated and thieving is more common.

Author:  Gringnr [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Off topic, sorry, but hey, OP, are you the person who wrote Codename: Spandex?

Edit: you are! C:S is good shit, my man. I am trying to get it together to run a game of Golden Heroes. I have been referring to the C:S rules whenever I find GH to be unclear (actually, I have been switching back and forth between those two books and 1st edition Squadron UK). Sometimes, seeing something that you have already read stated in a different manner makes it easier to understand. I see you have done other stuff as well. Don't want to derail your thread, but I like your work. I even plan on using the terms, "panels" and "pages", instead of "frames" and "rounds" when I run my game. Thanks for writing C:S!

Carry on.

Author:  Peter [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

No no :P Blacky (Name Unknown) is the original author of Dark Dungeons. I'm just expanding, readjusting, correcting it.

Author:  Gringnr [ Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Peter wrote:
No no :P Blacky (Name Unknown) is the original author of Dark Dungeons. I'm just expanding, readjusting, correcting it.


Well now I feel really stupid for derailing your thread

Author:  Peter [ Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

No problem. :P

Author:  Gringnr [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I think this should be called Darkest Dungeons...

Author:  Peter [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I'm still working on the layout, I should be about done messing with it. I should have something printable by the end of they year.

Currently I am working on Time Travel rules pulled from Blacky's 5e supplement Immortal's Companion.

More monster Images added. Immortal image added.

Author:  Treebore [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Peter wrote:
I'm still working on the layout, I should be about done messing with it. I should have something printable by the end of they year.

Currently I am working on Time Travel rules pulled from Blacky's 5e supplement Immortal's Companion.

More monster Images added. Immortal image added.



Getting a 404 error when I try to DL it now.

Author:  Peter [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Ya, Dropbox killed the share link for whatever reason. Link is fixed now.

Author:  Treebore [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Peter wrote:
Ya, Dropbox killed the share link for whatever reason. Link is fixed now.



The link in your signature area still doesn't work, but the one in the OP does.

Author:  Peter [ Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Oh oops, fixed now. Thanks.

Author:  Peter [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

The guy above me seems to be a spammer.

A bunch of updates (first post in this thread reflects this).

Most noticeably the addition of Monsters as Classes, they are about 80% done. I'm only doing the mythological and real-world ones.

Some of the classes have been reduced to subclasses. Copy/pasting the same abilities over and over was getting redundant and wasting book space.

Author:  Rigon [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

I deleted the post.

R-

Author:  Gringnr [ Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dark Dungeons Deluxe

Peter wrote:
The guy above me seems to be a spammer.

A bunch of updates (first post in this thread reflects this).

Most noticeably the addition of Monsters as Classes, they are about 80% done. I'm only doing the mythological and real-world ones.

Some of the classes have been reduced to subclasses. Copy/pasting the same abilities over and over was getting redundant and wasting book space.



Thanks, I appreciate your continued work on this!

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