How do you feel about this?

TLG d20, Necromancer Games and general. Discuss any game not covered in another forum.
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slimykuotoan
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How do you feel about this?

Post by slimykuotoan »

For crying out loud, do what you can with the attributes the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan

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Traveller
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Traveller »

Quite honestly, he really isn't that far off the mark. OD&D and Holmes Basic required the referee to fill in the holes, and some of those holes you could drive a truck through. However, you notice he doesn't use AD&D? Probably because AD&D was a more complete and polished game than OD&D, making it more difficult to support the statements he made.

OD&D and Holmes both absolutely require a competent referee, and it seems his group didn't have one.

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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Treebore »

Yeah, I have to say I am not a big fan of that particular version myself. While I wouldn't call it "rubbish", it definitely has a lot of rules I do not want to play under ever again.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Traveller
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Traveller »

The only items in Holmes that really stand out are the initiative system and all weapons doing 1d6 damage. The latter dates back to OD&D's beginnings, but was subsequently replaced in OD&D with replacement rules from Greyhawk. Initiative was a unique shstem, and I like it enough to use it regularly.

OD&D was worse with its reliance on Chainmail, but Greyhawk really helped in that regard.

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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by alcyone »

I think the secret of OD&D and Holmes is the rules aren't in the book, they are an oral tradition, though less so now that we have places like the ODD74 forum and stuff like Philotomy Jurament's musings, and more streamlined and opinionated versions like Delving Deeper and Swords and Wizardry, Traveller's "The Gray Book", Bruce Mohler's consolidated rules, and Blueholme, not to mention Jason Vey's Forbidden Lore, which explores the Chainmail side which didn't make it directly into the game we know today. I've spent more time scouring this stuff for the purposes of scholarship than actual play, though I find it fun to play.

Anyway, he is factually correct about a lot of things, just the emphasis he places on whether it makes a game bad is heavier than mine would be.
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Kayolan
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Kayolan »

Aergraith mentions some excellent resources and I would just like to offer up another one as well:

http://zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/

A favorite of mine, it explores the history and nuances of the Holmes edited D&D Basic Set.

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DreamscapeDesign
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by DreamscapeDesign »

Lindybeige is very entertaining if somewhat over-certain of the absolute truth of his own opinions. I did hold the same view as he regarding RuneQuest vs. D&D for several decades, but I see games systems in a less righteously outraged light these days.

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Arduin
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Arduin »

Pretty true for OD&D. Not at all for 1st Edition. He obviously isn't much of an FRPGer as he isn't at all familiar with that iconic version of FRPGs.
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Sir Ironside
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Re: How do you feel about this?

Post by Sir Ironside »

What I take away from it is, creating a entirely new form of entertainment is not easy and it (mostly) gets better over time.
"Paranoia is just another word for ignorance." - Hunter S. Thompson

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