Gary Con VIII (2016)

[Buttmonkey]

Gary Con has moved to a new resort in Lake Geneva. It's going to be at the old Playboy Club next year. The dates are March 3-6, 2016. Go to the Gary Con website for details.

If you reserved a room at the Geneva Ridge Resort for GC VIII, you're going to need to call the new resort to make a new reservation. Luke and Dale posted they are hopeful the new resort will be able to accommodate everyone this year.

[Omote]

This is a good move. The convention could realistically not be held at the old venue any longer.

~O

[Ancalagon]

Excellent! Very much looking forward to Gary Con 2016.

[Michael Montalto]

Can anyone who has been to Gary Con let me know what it's like? I just brought my youngest son to Gen Con and he loved it. That being said he didn't get a chance to play any games and was disappointed by how many people were at the convention after a while.

I'm curious what the experience is like at Gary Con. What makes it different from other conventions?

-mM

[Ancalagon]

My first Gary Con was this past March. Some of the big selling point for me were

1. Old School gaming galore!! If you're into TSR-era (A)D&D and similar games such as Castles & Crusades, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea, etc, then Gary Con is the best place to find them.
2. The quality of gaming is the best I've experienced at any convention.
3. Friendly folks. Lots of the forum members I've chatted with at DF, TLG, and K&KA attend Gary Con. Being able to meet such fine folk in person was a real treat.
4. 900 attendees v 61,000 at Gen Con. Nuff said.
5. History of the games, the hobby, and people involved from the early days of TSR abounds.
6. And getting to once more say hi and chat with the good Trolls themselves!

Gary Con is now my game convention of choice.

[tylermo]

Michael, I daresay there were 20+ C&C games on the schedule at last year's Gary Con. It's a fantastic convention put on by Luke Gygax and his friend, Dale Leonard. They work hard to make it a wonderful experience for guests, vendors, and attendees. Top notch!

[Buttmonkey]

Michael, I daresay there were 20+ C&C games on the schedule at last year's Gary Con. It's a fantastic convention put on by Luke Gygax and his friend, Dale Leonard. They work hard to make it a wonderful experience for guests, vendors, and attendees. Top notch!

It was closer to 30. There were a ton of C&C events this year.

Can anyone who has been to Gary Con let me know what it's like? I just brought my youngest son to Gen Con and he loved it. That being said he didn't get a chance to play any games and was disappointed by how many people were at the convention after a while.

I'm curious what the experience is like at Gary Con. What makes it different from other conventions?

-mM

I haven't been to Gen Con since 1990, so my frame of reference on that is pretty out of date. Gen Con has become even more massive since then. Gary Con is much more intimate, although it is growing. Gary Con is moving to a new venue, so it's hard to predict how crowded it will feel. We were jam-packed at the old venue, particularly during the day on Saturday. It got pretty hard to hear in the main playing hall on Saturday (I damn near lost my voice running a Saturday afternoon game). I'm hoping the increased venue size will solve the problem. There was talk after Gary Con VII of putting in partitions or maybe curtains between tables to try to reduce the noise level. I haven't heard anything about those extra measures since the venue change was announced.

Aside from size, another huge difference is the size and focus of the vendor area. My understanding is the vendor area at Gen Con is vast. Not so much at Gary Con. There is a limited vendor area that largely focuses on old school games (e.g., TLG and Goodman Games are two of the bigger vendors), some artwork vendors, and some used game vendors. You can fully explore the Gary Con vending area in an hour or less, although if you're like me you will go back through repeatedly to window shop with occasional divestment of your resources.

The ratio of play area to vending area is dramatically biased in favor of playing. Gary Con is much more about playing games and socializing than it is about getting your paws on the latest games and supplements from vendors.

The most significant difference between a mammoth con like Gen Con versus Gary Con is Gary Con's focus on old school gaming. While there are a lot of Pathfinder Society events, the vast majority of RPG events at Gary Con use old school rules sets. 1st edition AD&D is the most common game system, although you will see a ton of C&C and DCC RPG. There was a strong showing for 5E as well last year. Hackmaster and Call of Cthulhu are well-represented. Modern rules sets outside the D&D tradition have a significant, but smaller, presence. I recall seeing quite a few sessions using Fate, Savage Worlds, and games based on popular TV shows and movies like Firefly. There is a LOT of old school wargaming. Chainmail is probably the most common miniatures wargame. You will also see a number of wargames that form the roots of the hobby like the Bridge at Remagen, Fight in the Skies (i.e., Dawn Patrol), Don't Give Up the Ship, and Tractics. There is a large library of board games for people to play for free and you will see multiple tables of people playing various games throughout the con in the dining room (well, it was set up in the dining room at the old venue).

The quality of your experience at Gary Con depends a lot on what you put into it. Some people are really focused on the VIP events that let you play in games run by legends of the hobby (e.g., James Ward, Frank Mentzer, etc.). There are limited spots available for those games and some people have kind of lost it when they weren't able to get into the VIP events they wanted. That's really a shame since there are a ton of games run by unknown GMs that are just as good as the VIP events. I've also heard complaints from people who didn't preregister and had a hard time finding people to game with when they got to the con for just a day or two. There are lots of tables that will have open slots come game time. The critics might have had a great time if they had been open to trying a new system or otherwise taken a chance rather than going around looking for a spot at a table for an obscure game system. It's also probably not productive to grab a board game and sit down in open gaming waiting for someone to randomly walk by and ask to play with you. A much better strategy is to sign up for events and then actually put yourself out there and talk to the people you are playing with. Establish friendships. Those people will be much more likely to want to play something random with you when they are walking around with some free time later in the con. if you don't push yourself a little socially, a con can be a lonely place. It's very much a case of getting out what you put into it. I've been to the last 3 Gary Cons. It's amazing the network of friends I've made over that time. I still have some down time with no one to talk to occasionally during the con, but most of the time I've got people to hang out with all day long. I remember going to the kick off party on Wednesday night this year and being a little nervous that I wouldn't have anyone to talk to. I got 2 feet inside the door to the hotel bar, paused for about 5 seconds, and someone I played with the year before came up to me and invited me to hang out with him and his friends. We were playing board games and some 1E for the rest of the night. We'll be hanging out in 2016, too. That all comes from being just a little social and the small size of the con. You can make friendships that last for years with a little effort. If you're into old school games, you're going to be surrounded by people who share the same interests. That's a target-rich environment for a good time.

[Michael Montalto]

Wow. It sounds as if Gary Con is something that I would really enjoy. Is it kid friendly? My two boys are 9 & 11 (soon to be 10 & 12) and just getting interested in games. Luke had a particularly good time at Gen Con this year.

-mM

[Buttmonkey]

I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak on the kid-friendliness since I've never gone to a con with a kid. That said, I know Gary Con will have some events that are kids-only and kids have been welcome at every game I've played in. Most if not all of the players I have gamed with have been very patient with kid players. There is some drinking at the con, but that is more of an evening thing. I've only seen drinking become an issue with one player in the last 3 years. That guy was pretty much drunk the entire time I saw him playing and it became a real pain in the ass. I don't recall seeing him this year. One problem player in 3 years is a pretty damn good ratio.

[Michael Montalto]

Buttmonkey,

Thanks so much for the kind information. I'm going to go next year. It sounds like exactly the sort of con that I and my family would enjoy!

-mM

[Michael Montalto]

I just realized I had another question.

Does anyone run the S1-Tomb of Horrors at Gary Con? I am slightly ashamed to admit this as I've been playing AD&D flavor games for decades and have never played this classic adventure. I'd love the chance to run through it with a character and group of players.

I have the original and the 3.5 conversion (which was surprisingly well done) in PDF format and I really like the concept of it as compared to a more hack and slash style game.

Thoughts?

-mM

[Buttmonkey]

It is not offered as an annual event. I suggest you post to the Gary Con forums (once they come back up) to request that someone run it. Be sure to specify the game system you want the event to use (i.e., 1E, C&C, etc.).

[serleran]

Now that it's an 18 hour drive (instead of merely 14), I don't see attending in the near future but we'll see. My wife should be ending her new schooling by then and we'll want to get away to plot destruction with sorcerers of death's construction...

[miller6]

Greetings C&Cers! Good news for Gary Con VIII 2016. I will be coordinating a three round Castles and Crusades tournament at GaryCon VIII at the Grand Geneva Resort March 3rd-6th. The tourney will be held on Friday (first round) and Saturday (semi and final rounds). Six fun-to-play 6th level characters will be provided. Six players will play at each table with three players from each table advancing to the next round and the top three of the tourney winning prizes to be handed out at an award ceremony with Stephen Chenault after the tourney ends (hint, ask him to sign your copy if you win)! Top GM will win a prize too! Right now we're planning for 8 first round tables, 4 semi-final tables, and 2 final tables so we have room for 48 players in the first round. If more C&C GMs volunteer I'll double the number of tables.
To register for GaryCon go to http://garycon.com
Event registration opens once event submissions are finalized.
I look forward to seeing some C&C Society Members on the list of players. For registration all you have to do is sign up for the first round. The other rounds will be listed as full since they're reserved for players who advance.
If you wish to be a GM for the tourney, drop me a line at Miller6@Gmail.com. GMs will receive copies of the tournament rounds in advance for playtesting with your local group. This is going to be really cool and lots of fun!

Look forward to seeing yall at the C&C tables,
Brian Miller

[Treebore]

Greetings C&Cers! Good news for Gary Con VIII 2016. I will be coordinating a three round Castles and Crusades tournament at GaryCon VIII at the Grand Geneva Resort March 3rd-6th. The tourney will be held on Friday (first round) and Saturday (semi and final rounds). Six fun-to-play 6th level characters will be provided. Six players will play at each table with three players from each table advancing to the next round and the top three of the tourney winning prizes to be handed out at an award ceremony with Stephen Chenault after the tourney ends (hint, ask him to sign your copy if you win)! Top GM will win a prize too! Right now we're planning for 8 first round tables, 4 semi-final tables, and 2 final tables so we have room for 48 players in the first round. If more C&C GMs volunteer I'll double the number of tables.
To register for GaryCon go to http://garycon.com Event registration won't open events are finalized but I look forward to seeing some C&C Society Members on the list of players. For registration all you have to do is sign up for the first round. The other rounds will be listed as full since they're reserved for players who advance.
If you wish to be a GM for the tourney, drop me a line at Miller6@Gmail.com. GMs will receive copies of the tournament rounds in advance for playtesting with your local group. This is going to be really cool and lots of fun!

Look forward to seeing yall at the C&C tables,
Brian Miller

Hey cuz! Hopefully I will make it this year. As long as I don't have any more 6 week hospital stays I should be there!

[miller6]

Hey cuz! Hopefully I will make it this year. As long as I don't have any more 6 week hospital stays I should be there!

Then stay healthy! Want to GM a game or two of the C&C tournament if you make it to GaryCon? Could use another skilled GM.

Brian Miller

[Treebore]

Hey cuz! Hopefully I will make it this year. As long as I don't have any more 6 week hospital stays I should be there!

Then stay healthy! Want to GM a game or two of the C&C tournament if you make it to GaryCon? Could use another skilled GM.

Brian Miller

I'm definitely interested if I make it. I'll have to see when my other games get scheduled for.

[miller6]

I'm definitely interested if I make it. I'll have to see when my other games get scheduled for.

Event registration on Garycon.com will list all the GMs for the C&C Tournament simply as "C&C tournament GM". This way, I can make GM substitutions from my GM roster to avoid schedule conflicts with other events. So for now, I'll put you on the GM roster and send you a copy of the tournament for playtesting when it's ready. The tourney is tentatively scheduled as follows: first round tables will be run on Friday 8am-noon, noon-4pm, 4-8pm, and 8pm-midnight with two tables per time slot. Then the semi-final will be on saturday (8am-noon) with four tables that slot, and the final will also be saturday but from 4-8pm with two tables that slot.
Not that I may double the number of tables in each time slot if I get enough GMs to cover it. Getting close to being able to do that, but still looking for more C&C GMs who can make it to GaryCon.

Brian Miller

[thenorthman]

I have a room reserved that has two double size beds in one room then the living room has a fold out.

Any one interested in splitting a room? Total for room is $754

If not I will have a huge room all to myself! :O)

Sean King

[Treebore]

I have a room reserved that has two double size beds in one room then the living room has a fold out.

Any one interested in splitting a room? Total for room is $754

If not I will have a huge room all to myself! :O)

Sean King

I'm willing.

Edit: My wife wants to come with me, so if we can make that work...

[seskis281]

Hi all - been awhile (and I just messaged you back on FB Brian).

Mona and I hope sincerely to be at GaryCon this year (we have hotel reserved at the new site but haven't gotten our silver badges yet), but massive pending life changes have made things far more unsettled. We got slammed with a massive budget cut in the UW system and in order to implement my institution is undergoing extensive layoffs and reorganizations, the long and short of which is I and a lot of my colleagues are losing all or part of jobs and appointments. All local admin and staff are being wiped away and replaced with a smaller number of regional positions, with essentially one person to try and run each campus - meaning my job as associate dean disappears sometime between Nov. and Jan. Because of this I've ramped up job searching. I was a finalist for a job in Chandler, AZ last summer (would've been near Treebore) but didn't get it, now I am finalist for a Dean position in NW Illinois and that one is looking more likely. That job would actually have us even closer to Lake Geneva than where we are now in WI, but the responsibilities of the job may make it harder to facilitate the entirety of GaryCon and the financial situation will be unsettled - pay for move, will we be able to sell our current house, etc., so I am avoiding committing to anything firm for the con this year. If we do make it I will likely scale back and run just one or two personal events and spend more time playing and relaxing (which we'll need!!)

I know we're supposed stay away from some things... but I'd like to personally thank Scott Walker for the last six months of hell and total decimation of ten years of life's work here

[Ancalagon]

Greetings C&Cers! Good news for Gary Con VIII 2016. I will be coordinating a three round Castles and Crusades tournament at GaryCon VIII at the Grand Geneva Resort March 3rd-6th. The tourney will be held on Friday (first round) and Saturday (semi and final rounds). Six fun-to-play 6th level characters will be provided. Six players will play at each table with three players from each table advancing to the next round and the top three of the tourney winning prizes to be handed out at an award ceremony with Stephen Chenault after the tourney ends (hint, ask him to sign your copy if you win)! Top GM will win a prize too! Right now we're planning for 8 first round tables, 4 semi-final tables, and 2 final tables so we have room for 48 players in the first round. If more C&C GMs volunteer I'll double the number of tables.
To register for GaryCon go to http://garycon.com
Event registration opens once event submissions are finalized.
I look forward to seeing some C&C Society Members on the list of players. For registration all you have to do is sign up for the first round. The other rounds will be listed as full since they're reserved for players who advance.
If you wish to be a GM for the tourney, drop me a line at Miller6@Gmail.com. GMs will receive copies of the tournament rounds in advance for playtesting with your local group. This is going to be really cool and lots of fun!

Look forward to seeing yall at the C&C tables,
Brian Miller

Very interesting. How will advancement / scoring be handled?

[miller6]

Very interesting. How will advancement / scoring be handled?

I've seen numerous different ways of scoring elimination tournaments. In the first two versions 3 out of 6 players advance from each table because that halves the number of tables in the next round. Thus a small tourney would have 4 first round tables, 2 semi-final tables, then 1 final round table for a 3 round tourney. Ours is bigger currently at 8,4,2 but if I get a few more GMs I may double the size yet again. My goal is to have lots of people so we can swamp Stephen at the Troll Lord Games Vendor Booth during the award ceremony. haha.

The first method for selecting who advances is by having each player nominate the top 3 players at the table without no one allowed to vote for themself. Each 1st place nomination gets you 3 points, 2nd place 2 points and 3rd place 1 point. GM vote counts for double i.e. 6, 4 or 2 points respectively. Then add up the total points for each player and the top three totals advance while the other 3 are eliminated. This method is easy to calculate but I don't like that it isn't based on any particular aspect of play.

A 2nd method IS by having all of the players pick the best player in five categories of game play and write their name after the category. Again no one was allowed to vote for themself. The categories were, role-playing, strategic play, rules knowledge, team support, and contribution to the fun of the game. Each time a player's name appears on a score sheet they get a point regardless of what category it's in. Once again the GM nominations counted for double so you got 2 points for each category the GM listed you in. Add up the total points for each player then, the three top scores advance to the next round. I like this method because prizes could be awarded for individual categories aside from determining who took 1st, 2nd and 3rd place overall simply by determining whose name showed up the most times in each category.

The third method is by group elimination. The GMs score the group at their table based on the party's collective actions in the game with predetermined actions which are highly beneficial to the party or work highly against the part being worth plus or minus a point depending on whether you did the good or bad one. Other actions didn't warrant points. Encounters could have more than one point depending on what the author of the adventure thought was good or bad actions. The group also lost 1 or more points for each character that died depending on how many total points there were. The 3 groups with the most points advance all 6 of the players. I didn't like this method because players often came up with good or bad ideas that the author didn't consider which should've been worth a point or caused a loss of a point. In one version GMs were allowed to consider that, but that made the scoring system unbalanced since some GMs would add or deduct more points than other GMs.

A fourth method was the simplest. The 3 groups that make it the furthest through the dungeon advance. If more than one make it to the end then the group that finished in the least amount of time wins. I don't like this method because it turns the game into a mad dash to the end at the cost of sacrificing role playing which people due to time constraints view as a waste of time. In that version groups took to having clerics load up on augury spells to get answers from the GM on whether they're going the right direction to get to the end the quickest. It also depended on how quick your GM could run the game and how well your GM and players knew the spells and other rules since referencing books cost time.

Another scoring method allows all players to advance and play in every round while keeping track of their individual scores in each round then awarding the top three total scores prizes after the final. That's a non-elimination tournament, i.e. different creature entirely. This method was popular at conventions because it's easier for players to schedule their non-tournament games since they knew in advance if they'd be in the next round or not, whereas with elimination tournaments players who advanced often had schedule conflicts with other games they signed up for and had to choose which game they wanted to play in more which occasionally left empty seats at tournament tables in later rounds. The drawback of this method is it can be run as open enrollment which means when registering you might get into the first round then find out the next rounds have already been filled by players who weren't even in the first round.

One method for players to evaluate the Game Master in each round they run was like the 2nd method only the players rated the GM in each category on a 1 to 5 basis. Do the same for each table each GM runs in each round. Best total GM score for a single table wins top GM for the tourney. In the event of a tie check their 2nd best scores to see who was higher, if still tied, then 3rd best scores, etc. until the winner is determined. You can figure out the top 3 GMs that way as well. The C&C tournament at GaryCon VIII will have a GM prize. How many are given out will depend on how many GMs I get.

Those are examples of scoring systems I've seen in the past that I won't be using if you're looking for ideas of how to score a tournament and thoughts concerning the pros and cons of each method.

I'm currently writing the scoring system for the C&C tournament at GaryCon VIII. The specifics will be kept under wraps until the convention. Instructions for completing score sheets and an explanation of the scoring system will be available at the C&C tournament Headquarters or GaryCon registration desk or Troll Lord Games Vendor booth.

Brian Miller

[thenorthman]

I have a room reserved that has two double size beds in one room then the living room has a fold out.

Any one interested in splitting a room? Total for room is $754

If not I will have a huge room all to myself! :O)

Sean King

I'm willing.

Edit: My wife wants to come with me, so if we can make that work...

That would work....

We could figure it out easy enough.....

Name is Sean K King if want to check me out on FB or something....just to make sure. :O) Washington.

[thenorthman]

Plus hope to get in on at least the first part of the tourney.

We will see if . :O)

[Treebore]

I'm not on Facebook, but my wife is. I hang out in google land.

[Treebore]

I have a room reserved that has two double size beds in one room then the living room has a fold out.

Any one interested in splitting a room? Total for room is $754

If not I will have a huge room all to myself! :O)

Sean King

I'm willing.

Edit: My wife wants to come with me, so if we can make that work...

That would work....

We could figure it out easy enough.....

Name is Sean K King if want to check me out on FB or something....just to make sure. :O) Washington.

Check your Facebook "Other Folder", whatever that means...

[thenorthman]

Done sent friend request (which can always deny :O) at least for this time frame.....plus what ever reason.

Looking forward to the con again.

I also sent message saying I have it for 5 nights. If you do shorter time frame that would still work.

Sean

[Treebore]

Done sent friend request (which can always deny :O) at least for this time frame.....plus what ever reason.

Looking forward to the con again.

I also sent message saying I have it for 5 nights. If you do shorter time frame that would still work.

Sean

Considering how we travel, we are both 100% Disabled Veterans, the 5 nights will probably work for us as well.

[miller6]

Now writing Round 2 of the Castles and Crusades Tournament for GaryCon VIII.
Nice change from writing up the scoring system and tournament rules.