View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:56 pm



Reply to topic  [ 228 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
StarSiege Relaunch 
Author Message
Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 1595
Post 
I've grown to like the attributes as they are. I guess most of us just have a hard time with change.
_________________
That is SIR! to you!

_________________
"Paranoia is just another word for ignorance." - Hunter S. Thompson


Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:10 am
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:44 am
Posts: 286
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
As the game is not out of print or anything, I know what I'll be doing...

I'll buy the damn game. :p

If enough people do like me, THEN perhaps there'll be support. If not then dammit, I'll run the game anyway.

Plus the author of the game himself seems to be very willing to offer online support from what I've seen on these boards.

I don't mind people going "I'm not interested in that kind of game". But honestly when people go "I would buy the game but I'm not sure it's gonna stick around long enough" or whatever... Well, then I point them to this (different medium, same principle. And ironically same genre); http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... eflyEffect

Also, look in the very rpg industry of what happened to a company that tried to push products from lines that weren't backed by sales yet; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_End_Games

In other words, if you want to see more of it, back it up. If a company makes money from a game, OF COURSE they'll give you more material from it!


Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:46 am
Profile
Unkbartig
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 822
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I picked it up back around Christmas, I think. One of those fantastic sales the Trolls so generously ran. ;)

I'm going to take a copy of each of the books to GaryCon with me, just in case I can get into a pick-up game at some point.


Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:58 am
Profile
Ungern
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Vallejo, CA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Had I gotten my shit together sooner, I would have run a StarSIEGE game at Dundracon this year.

Unfortunately, I'm a big slack-ass and didn't submit my request until the end of December... so I didn't get a slot to run a game. :oops:

Oh well... Maybe next year?

_________________
-- Lord Crimson, Champion of Darkness

--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!

** As always, my suggestions/statements/ideas come with the caveats of YMMV and IMO. :D


Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:36 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
So I've been musing on what I would do if we did Relaunch StarSIEGE... and I've really been thinking the game could stand to have some streamlining. Here are some things I've been pondering...

I've been thinking of removing Specialty ratings and instead making them binary. Either you have the Specialty (and get a +3 to your roll) or you don't. Cuts down on the numbers on the sheet and makes chargen a bit faster. Also should stop the hunting and pecking for numbers on the sheet... "Oh, this is a Cultural Understanding check? I've got that specialty... so +3"

I was thinking of re-tooling the "Class" of items/powers. Instead of Automatic or some Skill Bundle, I'd make them "Always On" or "Use Activated". Functionally simliar, but a little more straightforward. Armor is "Always On" whilst a Sword is "Use Activated". The Specialty rules would carry over to the items/powers as well... but specialties from items allow you to "double up"... so if your character has the Shooting Specialty and picks up a gun with the Shooting Specialty, that's a +6 to your roll. This would be the only time things would "stack".

I'd likely expand the Stress Track system some to give some better examples of Social/Emotional damage and such.

I'd also likely shift a bit closer to "classes" and give "templates" for characters. I'd also probably stat up quite a few more "Special Abilities" to give it a more "class-like" feeling without being truly class-based.

I'd do what I could to make the game more compatible with C&C... even if it's just the item/power creation system. I think that even if the game stands separately with using just the SIEGE Engine and such, I really think I could tighten up the item/power to make it cross compatible with C&C with only a small amount of effort. Really would have to re-examine it a bunch though.

Many of these changes would make the relaunch a true 2nd Edition and would be significant changes to the game. Is this a good thing or should I just leave well enough alone and just tighten up some of the wobbly legs?

Also, if I were to relaunch would we want to see A) a more fleshed out Victory 2442 setting? B) Setting Agnostic... just a bunch of generic things that can be refleshed to fit other games or C) a whole new setting (and if so, what would you like to see?)

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:13 pm
Profile WWW
Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 1595
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Also, if I were to relaunch would we want to see A) a more fleshed out Victory 2442 setting? B) Setting Agnostic... just a bunch of generic things that can be refleshed to fit other games or C) a whole new setting (and if so, what would you like to see?)

Its so hard to find a space genre that hasn't been covered by another rpg. Your question brought me back to an old Pacific/Eclipse comic series Sun-runners that was different enough, still a solid concept and a fun read with enough leg-room to make it your own.

Getting back-issues shouldn't be all that hard and on-the-cheap side.

_________________
"Paranoia is just another word for ignorance." - Hunter S. Thompson


Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:45 pm
Profile
Hlobane Orc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 160
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Now that's a second edition I would LOVE to see.....the changes you outline seem ideal for making the game more streamlined (much more my preference!).
I personally would prefer a setting agnostic rule book, with specific settings as supplemental books (with gadgets, relevant creatures, character templates, weapons etc.)
So, how likely is a relaunch?
D.


Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:58 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I was imagining something like this:

Soldier
Class Skill Bundles
Athletics, Awareness, or Combat

Class Specialties
Anticipate, Bolster, Camouflage, Detection, Feats of Agility, Feats of Strength, Leadership, Melee, Shooting, Stealth, Survival, Tactical Maneuvering, Tracking, Unarmed

Class Abilities
Hardened [P0 D0 X15]: Armor1, Always On.
Toughened [P0 D0 X12]: +2 Wound Boxes, Always On.
Whirlwind [P0 D3 X15]: Time Dilation: Extra Attack, Move 2, Use Activated.
Robust [P0 D0 X12]: Halve Healing Times, Flaw: Tranquil, Always On.
Crack Shot [P0 D0 X9]: Shooting Specialty, Reduce Range by one Band, -1 to Reliability, Use Activated.
Mighty Thews [P0 D0 X9]: Melee Specialty, +1 Wound, Daze, Use Activated.
Tactician [P0 D2 X10]: Leadership Specialty, Grant Tactical Manuevering Specialty to up to 5 people under command, Persistant, Use Activated.

Note: Purchasing any Class Specialties is done at -1XP and any Class Abilities at -3XP. Class Abilities must have an XP Cost of 9 or more.

Basically... anyone could grab any of the Soldier's Abilities or Specialtis, but the Soldier gets them for cheaper... Thus it's still a "wide open" classless system, but with the trappings of a class system.

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:53 pm
Profile WWW
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 2727
Location: The Court of the Crimson King
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Also, if I were to relaunch would we want to see A) a more fleshed out Victory 2442 setting? B) Setting Agnostic... just a bunch of generic things that can be refleshed to fit other games or C) a whole new setting (and if so, what would you like to see?)


Mostly B, but maybe B with some V2442-lite.

What sort of confused me when I bought the box, was there was a rule book, that had the barest bit of an implied setting, and then a second book that had a setting, and if I remember correctly, some rule changes, to the book that I just was introduced to 10 minutes ago.

I like the idea of a barely there setting, sort of like how Greyhawk informed 3.5 D&D without actually being very fleshed out, right in the single rule book.

I loved getting 4 field manuals, though.

Anyway, I am willing to buy the game all over again if you do a director's cut of it; I want to use SIEGE for everything these days.

_________________
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com


Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:37 pm
Profile
Greater Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 2727
Location: The Court of the Crimson King
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I looked through my books again last night. I think I wouldn't use V2442, but I don't see a problem with that as an example; it's pretty complete I think (certainly as complete as Alpha Dawn Star Frontiers). I would probably collapse the 'core' scenario with the V2442 one though instead of presenting two in one box. I think my only trouble is with the headings, font, layout. I contrasted it with the Introductory rules from Free RPG Day and didn't have any trouble understanding it, but when I look at the field manual I go cross-eyed. I wish I knew enough about typography and layout to know why.

Anyway, it got me thinking. There are a lot of Maptool/Skype CnC games going on. Is anyone who groks the rules well thinking of running an online StarSIEGE game? Seems like a good way to spread the know-how, especially for us too introverted to even go to cons.

_________________
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com


Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:26 pm
Profile
Unkbartig
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 931
Location: Martin, MI
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
The proposed changes sound dead on to me. Plus, taking into account all that was suggested in earlier posts, namely layout and examples. As to the setting, there should be an official one offered, so flesh out what you have going already. People who want something different typically do their own homebrew stuff anyway. I think a hardcover core book and a folio setting with maps would be really cool.


Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:29 pm
Profile
Lore Drake
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:00 am
Posts: 1544
Location: Topsham, Maine
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Piperdog wrote:
I think a hardcover core book and a folio setting with maps would be really cool.



Totally agree with this.


Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Profile
Skobbit
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Flock Of Seagulls, IN, USA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
I've been thinking of removing Specialty ratings and instead making them binary. Either you have the Specialty (and get a +3 to your roll) or you don't.
Hmmm...then, you could only increase a Specialty so much.

cheeplives wrote:
I was thinking of re-tooling the "Class" of items/powers. Instead of Automatic or some Skill Bundle, I'd make them "Always On" or "Use Activated". Functionally simliar, but a little more straightforward. Armor is "Always On" whilst a Sword is "Use Activated".
Good, 'cause -- frankly? This originally confused the juice outta me.

cheeplives wrote:
The Specialty rules would carry over to the items/powers as well... but specialties from items allow you to "double up"... so if your character has the Shooting Specialty and picks up a gun with the Shooting Specialty, that's a +6 to your roll. This would be the only time things would "stack".
So +6 would be the max bonus possible that way, huh? I kinda like that you can end up with a +8 Shooting bonus, f'rex, but I can see where you're coming from, here.

cheeplives wrote:
I'd do what I could to make the game more compatible with C&C... even if it's just the item/power creation system. I think that even if the game stands separately with using just the SIEGE Engine and such, I really think I could tighten up the item/power to make it cross compatible with C&C with only a small amount of effort. Really would have to re-examine it a bunch though.
Would it still feel like a stand-alone game? I really like that aspect of SS.

cheeplives wrote:
Many of these changes would make the relaunch a true 2nd Edition and would be significant changes to the game. Is this a good thing or should I just leave well enough alone and just tighten up some of the wobbly legs?
I think it's a good thing.

cheeplives wrote:
Also, if I were to relaunch would we want to see A) a more fleshed out Victory 2442 setting? B) Setting Agnostic... just a bunch of generic things that can be refleshed to fit other games or C) a whole new setting (and if so, what would you like to see?)
System-agnostic, but with some short-form campaign setting seeds. That's what I think.

Oh, by the way -- I'm finally back. Cool, huh?

_________________
Dr Rotwang! -- yeah, that one.
All those 'anonymous' posts carried over from the old boards? Those're mine.


Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:52 am
Profile WWW
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Welcome back, good Doctor!

As far as your issues, I agree with the Specialties... it was nice to have some flexibility in the numbers (especially when building weapons and such). I'm going to have to figure out if there's some balance between "streamlined" while maintaining an ability to accommodate advancement.

I do want SS to remain a stand-alone game, but I would like to at least address the issues people have with it not hewing closer to C&C. In a perfect world I'd at least like to be able to create a system where you could translate trappings from SSEH into C&C. If I could at least pull off that feat, I think I'd be a lot happier. Character conversion is always more of an art, but if I could make a way to build techno-gadgetry and port it into C&C with a minimal fuss, I think that'd be a huge win for SSEH and the SIEGE Engine as a whole.

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:40 pm
Profile WWW
Ungern
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Vallejo, CA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Welcome back, good Doctor!

As far as your issues, I agree with the Specialties... it was nice to have some flexibility in the numbers (especially when building weapons and such). I'm going to have to figure out if there's some balance between "streamlined" while maintaining an ability to accommodate advancement.

I do want SS to remain a stand-alone game, but I would like to at least address the issues people have with it not hewing closer to C&C. In a perfect world I'd at least like to be able to create a system where you could translate trappings from SSEH into C&C. If I could at least pull off that feat, I think I'd be a lot happier. Character conversion is always more of an art, but if I could make a way to build techno-gadgetry and port it into C&C with a minimal fuss, I think that'd be a huge win for SSEH and the SIEGE Engine as a whole.


The biggest issue with porting the Trapping system (at least as it now exists) into C&C would be that it relies on dials that don't really exist in C&C at all -

1) Size - I guess you could just say "anything size 9 or less can be used by the tall races and anything size 8 or lower can be used by small races". But you lose granularity. (EDIT: though C&C could benefit from using the SS encumbrance system - in which case Size rating would have meaning... at least until someone tries to kit out the "standard" adventurer and finds out that they can't carry all that crap they usually lug around in a dungeon-crawl).

Other than being "too big to carry", what effect would a size 11 object have compared to a size 25 object? If I'm going to make it too big to carry, I might as well put all my trapping points into Size and make it 100% Reliable (R0), cost nothing (V0), and buildable from sticks and rocks (T0). It does 40d8 damage and I'll call it the mega-ballista!

2) Tech - Not sure how this would translate. Would everything in C&C be T0-3? Just limit the dial's max?

3) Reliability - No real system of reliability in C&C, though one could probably implement one fairly easily.

4) Value - Issue of differing Wealth systems - C&C being very granular and SS being very broad. How many gp does something with a value of 5 actually cost? Or do we just have a table - V1 = 1 gp, V2 = 2gp, V3 = 4 gp, V4 = 8 gp, etc.

_________________
-- Lord Crimson, Champion of Darkness

--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!

** As always, my suggestions/statements/ideas come with the caveats of YMMV and IMO. :D


Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:09 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Okay, so it looks like there may be a re-launch of StarSIEGE... so I'm looking for any issues people found in the game that they'd like to see addressed. This will be a 2nd Edition, not a reprinting. I plan to go in and re-tweak the system and do some streamlining as well as some realigning to hew a bit closer to C&C. Attributes will not change, but some more "class-like" builds will be included for people who like that stuff. So, beyond Errata and layout, what issues exist in the game that need to be addressed?

If relaunched, I believe we will be working with the following specs for the first roll-out:
180 page StarSIEGE: Event Horizon Rulebook (hardback, I believe)
64 page Victory 2442 setting book (soft-cover)
GM Screen

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:10 pm
Profile WWW
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
sounds like good news to me :)

My wish list for a new version of StarSIEGE is:

1) bonuses seem to be really high. A Soldier, having Combat class, a +4 Speciality in Shooting, getting +6 from the Assault rifle, plus Reflexes, does not really miss anything. I can see the high bonuses enable characters without the Combat class to fight effectively, though. So I welcome your idea to limit Specialities and equipment bonuses in some way.

2) to me Specialities seem to be too cheap when building equipment/Special Abilities. I think they should cost twice the current BP.

3) Armor&Durability. A knife is able to decrease the Durability of Armor by one point. It seems to be unrealistic, but hey, it's Sci-Fi anyway. I just wanted to mention it. ;)

4) finding the matching Attribute, Skill Bundle and Speciality is sometimes hard. But maybe that is only a thing I need to get used to and your streamlining will tighten things up.

5) examples. I would love to have more examples how Attribute, Skill Bundle and Speciality can be used. As an example, I still do not know how a character could resist some kind of poison or disease ... ;)

6) rules for Drowning, Fire, Falling, Radiation and Poison/Disease. Light stuff, nothing too detailed, but some hints how to handle it.

7) Trade system. Small & fast rules how economics in a galaxy could work and how the characters could interact with it. Something like the planet rules, maybe. An economy is a living organism, so it could work.

8) alternative dice systems. OK, CnC uses the d20, but why not give suggestions for using other dice? There are people who do not like the d20, and I cannot see why StarSIEGE should be limited to a single die.

9) sample characters. The setting 2442 would really benefit from having some major characters and equipment. I do like the example setting, it is loose enough to give the SE room for creating his universe while still giving enough background to build on it. It is meant as a toolkit and it does well in that way.

10) I love the Size/Population/Cost table. Maybe you could include the cubic (cenit)meter rating or some more examples? I really have no idea, what one gallon of water is like, in fact I have never ever seen one gallon of anything - because I grew up with the metric system ;)

That's it. All minor stuff, but maybe worthwhile to have a look at it. ;)

Cheers!

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:33 am
Profile
Ungern
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Vallejo, CA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Contrary to my learned colleague, I actually like the bonuses being high, since defenses basically get a free base of 18 to start and armor/skills/attributes push it up from there. This makes it viable to have a starting Soldier actually hit another fairly armored target. And I prefer the Combat-as-SIEGE-check mechanic for a sci-fi game as opposed to the classic BtH vs. AC that C&C uses.

I do think some kind of trade system could be a good idea for people looking for something a little more Traveller-ish. Though I'd be okay with something similar to the stuff from WEG's Tramp Freighters for old D6 Star Wars.

Really, I think the biggest "issue" for many people is the dearth of Trappings and examples of both using and building them in play and the lack of a clear and detailed "core setting" example.

I do think just pre-building a handful (6-8) of classes (using the Trapping system and a combo of the Competence Level-plus-Trappings XP system) would answer most, if not all, of the complaints about StarSIEGE "not being C&C-enough". And the beauty of doing that means that readers have yet another set of examples of the Trappings system in action from which to build or derive their own setting-appropriate classes.

And the biggest draws, for me of course, are the Trapping system and your variant take on the SIEGE Engine.

_________________
-- Lord Crimson, Champion of Darkness

--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!

** As always, my suggestions/statements/ideas come with the caveats of YMMV and IMO. :D


Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:43 pm
Profile
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Lord Crimson wrote:
Contrary to my learned colleague, I actually like the bonuses being high, since defenses basically get a free base of 18 to start and armor/skills/attributes push it up from there. This makes it viable to have a starting Soldier actually hit another fairly armored target. And I prefer the Combat-as-SIEGE-check mechanic for a sci-fi game as opposed to the classic BtH vs. AC that C&C uses.


Yes, the beauty is: this is the first game I ever played where you do not need to have any fighting skills and still be able to hit and damage an enemy. I really like that.
On the opposite, it makes the Combat Class really dangerous. But life's dangerous. So I do not complain. ;)

Lord Crimson wrote:
And the biggest draws, for me of course, are the Trapping system and your variant take on the SIEGE Engine.


Yes, again. I like the way StarSIEGE works. I never liked D&D or any other d20 game, but this one is so "not-d20", I like it. :D Kind of strange, but it is as it is. And I love the fixed Damage. Easy & Fast. Simple as that.

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:34 am
Profile
Cleric of Zagyg
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 10769
Location: Somewhere in Time
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Okay, so it looks like there may be a re-launch of StarSIEGE... so I'm looking for any issues people found in the game that they'd like to see addressed. This will be a 2nd Edition, not a reprinting. I plan to go in and re-tweak the system and do some streamlining as well as some realigning to hew a bit closer to C&C. Attributes will not change, but some more "class-like" builds will be included for people who like that stuff. So, beyond Errata and layout, what issues exist in the game that need to be addressed?

If relaunched, I believe we will be working with the following specs for the first roll-out:
180 page StarSIEGE: Event Horizon Rulebook (hardback, I believe)
64 page Victory 2442 setting book (soft-cover)
GM Screen


Whoa!!!

Here's some excellent news!!!!!!!!!!

Josh, you might want to post this in the Open Discussion forum to make sure everyone sees this!

Thanks,

Rhu. :)

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:35 am
Profile
Skobbit
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Flock Of Seagulls, IN, USA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I, too, am down with Big Bonuses. So I say they're OK.

As for anything else, well...maybe a bit of the philosophy of building Trappings. In other words, what bits to use, for what, and when? As you may recall, my first couple'a swings at it were kinda off (remember the ultra-cheap, tennis-ball-sized Caveman Cyberdeck?), if only because I was either over- or under-thinking the system.

The Trappings system is strong ju-ju, and mortal man needs to be prepared for its use!

_________________
Dr Rotwang! -- yeah, that one.
All those 'anonymous' posts carried over from the old boards? Those're mine.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:00 am
Profile WWW
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
yes, after finishing my first bigger adventure now, I can see how the big bonuses work in play. And they make sense. So I am in with big bonuses as well - again ;)

I like the split between Attributes, Skill Bonuses and Specialities. I do not like the C&C thing combining Attributes and Challenge Base. It occurs to me to be inflexible in a class-less system.

Some more examples and some insight to the design philosophy would certainly help new gamers. Once you get it, that you do not need to skim through the list of options to create a piece of equipment/power and use everything that could be used, but you use what would make sense to an item, it is easy. But you need to get away from that 'brick building' attitude to the "concept building" attitude, which is hard as many other RPGs are not as open as StarSIEGE and have more rules for anything a gamer could imagine.

I love it as it is. Really. Don't change too much of it or break it ;) I like the way it differs from C&C and it is the difference why I love it. It is a simple, rules lite RPG toolkit with a strong construction engine, that allows to make nearly anything one can imagine - without rules restricting ones imagination. :mrgreen:

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:51 am
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I really am torn on the big bonuses. On one hand, they give a lot of room to differentiate different items and "fine tune" things. On the other hand, the addition can quickly escalate and suddenly you're rolling d20+16 on a Target Number 18+14...

Part of me really wants to pair it down to "quick and dirty" resolution where basically we stick to the 12/18 Target numbers +/- 6. But that really limits the amount of character advancement you can do... but that might encourage advancing a character via special abilities rather than just static bonuses...

The idea bouncing around in my head is to really pair the game down to Skill Bundles, Attributes, and Specialties. Your attributes are -3 to +3 for the most part, and Specialties would add an additional +3 for "Trained" or +6 for "Mastered". (effectively giving you a Skill Bundle bonus in one aspect of the Bundle).

I guess I could keep the ability to add +1 to +6 for items in the trapping system to give some bit of flavor. I really just want to keep the number inflation down a bit.. unless people thing the number inflation isn't too much of a problem.

I am listening.

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:07 pm
Profile WWW
Skobbit
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Flock Of Seagulls, IN, USA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Well, dude...anyone tells you you can't present one of those frameworks as optional rules, they're either stupid, lying or both.

Probably both.

_________________
Dr Rotwang! -- yeah, that one.
All those 'anonymous' posts carried over from the old boards? Those're mine.


Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:30 pm
Profile WWW
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I like the idea of using XP points instead of Nova points. So, every game I give out XP for good role-playing, good ideas and general award. The players can use these points during the game to boost their Skills (on a one-to-one basis) or to do all the stuff Nova points allow (although with different price tags). After the adventure the players can use the remaining points to improve their Attributes, Skill Bundles or Specialities as per normal rules.

It gives the players the option to use experience directly during an adventure or to cash them in later for better skills.
This variant also does not ask for huge character advancement, as the pool of XP is their advantage and advancement.

It needs a complete change of mind, though, and not every player might like the idea.

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:51 am
Profile
Ungern
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Vallejo, CA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
I really am torn on the big bonuses. On one hand, they give a lot of room to differentiate different items and "fine tune" things. On the other hand, the addition can quickly escalate and suddenly you're rolling d20+16 on a Target Number 18+14...

Part of me really wants to pair it down to "quick and dirty" resolution where basically we stick to the 12/18 Target numbers +/- 6. But that really limits the amount of character advancement you can do... but that might encourage advancing a character via special abilities rather than just static bonuses...

The idea bouncing around in my head is to really pair the game down to Skill Bundles, Attributes, and Specialties. Your attributes are -3 to +3 for the most part, and Specialties would add an additional +3 for "Trained" or +6 for "Mastered". (effectively giving you a Skill Bundle bonus in one aspect of the Bundle).

I guess I could keep the ability to add +1 to +6 for items in the trapping system to give some bit of flavor. I really just want to keep the number inflation down a bit.. unless people thing the number inflation isn't too much of a problem.

I am listening.


While I'm not against there being an option for doing things this way, I much prefer the finer scales of advancement the existing system provides.

The option you present would be great for, say, a short campaign, where a few big "chunk" advancements would make sense.

But for longer-running campaigns or campaigns that wanted to allow for more extreme levels of advancement (effectively "high level" games), this would probably do two things:

1) Force XP expenditures to be very expensive and/or rare, slowing advancement to an unsatisfying crawl and forcing PCs to save up for extremely expensive power ups in their areas of interest rather than picking up a few levels in other areas here and there when it seems useful/convenient.

2) PCs would "top-out" in a given area after only a handful of "level ups". So your space gunfighter pretty much runs out of things to do within his skill-set fairly early on in the campaign (once he tops out his two levels of specialty in "shooting stuff in the face" and "shooting stuff fast") and now must reach outside his focus (say, into Piloting or Medicine), even if the player has no interest in pursuing those paths in order to have anything further to expend XP on.

TL;DR - Early on it forces PCs to hyper-specialize and grow really slowly even if it doesn't fit the game. And then later on it forces PCs to top out too soon and over-generalize even if it doesn't really fit the game.

_________________
-- Lord Crimson, Champion of Darkness

--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!

** As always, my suggestions/statements/ideas come with the caveats of YMMV and IMO. :D


Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:52 pm
Profile
Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Lord Crimson wrote:
2) PCs would "top-out" in a given area after only a handful of "level ups". So your space gunfighter pretty much runs out of things to do within his skill-set fairly early on in the campaign (once he tops out his two levels of specialty in "shooting stuff in the face" and "shooting stuff fast") and now must reach outside his focus (say, into Piloting or Medicine), even if the player has no interest in pursuing those paths in order to have anything further to expend XP on.

Well, the idea would be to channel those players into custom-built Special Abilities... so you've Mastered "Shooting"? Build your own Special Ability that reduces the Reliability of any weapon you use! Make a custom "Dual Wield" Special Ability giving you a second attack when using a gun... Those things are more fun that having a +8 to Shooting, I'd wager. But it's just a thought.

_________________
discreteinfinity.com -- my respite from the bustle of the internet

Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:18 pm
Profile WWW
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Lord Crimson wrote:
Well, the idea would be to channel those players into custom-built Special Abilities... so you've Mastered "Shooting"? Build your own Special Ability that reduces the Reliability of any weapon you use! Make a custom "Dual Wield" Special Ability giving you a second attack when using a gun... Those things are more fun that having a +8 to Shooting, I'd wager. But it's just a thought.


No, I personally do not like the possibility that characters have a ton of Special Abilities. It makes things harder for the SE, as he has to create NPCs with a ton of SA's as well - and it slows down gaming as you constantly have to look up these Special Abilities. I hated it with Savage Wolds and I will not like it in StarSIEGE at all.

In my opinion, a Special Ability is something extraordinary: something that makes the character or his race to stand out. And personally I would forbid players to create SAs after character creation - except if there are extraordinary situations (losing a limb, an eye, getting a mutation, etc).

Just my thought ...

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:19 pm
Profile
Ungern
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Vallejo, CA
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Well, the idea would be to channel those players into custom-built Special Abilities... so you've Mastered "Shooting"? Build your own Special Ability that reduces the Reliability of any weapon you use! Make a custom "Dual Wield" Special Ability giving you a second attack when using a gun... Those things are more fun that having a +8 to Shooting, I'd wager. But it's just a thought.


I admit that this part is something that is an interesting idea.

And I would like there to be more "out of the box" pre-constructed special abilities for PCs and GMs to choose from (so Players don't have to learn the trapping system to advance, and GMs can just pull SAs out of the book for their NPCs rather than building them at the table for an NPC he didn't pre-stat). This would alleviate some (though by no means all) of Pansophy's objection to numerous SAs.

But I like to have multiple dials for advancement - all the way up. Tune up your shoot bonus even higher so that you can hit those guys with a high defense bonus? Or save your points for that awesome "double-attack" SA allowing you to double your damage with each attack?

The alternative seems like it would force players to purchase SAs even if they'd rather just have a higher to-hit bonus (not to mention forcing you to either cap out bonuses from equipment and turn on "non-stacking" or turn the game into a gear-head nightmare where everyone's gunning to get their hands on anything giving them a bigger defense bonus and/or a bigger shooting bonus to make themselves either unshootable or undodgeable - at which point the game ceases to be about the PCs at all and only exists to see who can finagle a trapping with a bigger bonus).

_________________
-- Lord Crimson, Champion of Darkness

--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!

** As always, my suggestions/statements/ideas come with the caveats of YMMV and IMO. :D


Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:15 pm
Profile
Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I think there should be some kind of limit to the Specialities. +6 for normal games, or +9 for Space Opera. Having higher bonuses is completely off the scale, as die rolls have less and less impact to the outcome of the task.
And then you could simply rule the player can do it automatically.
I would set a limit to Special Ability bonuses as well. Or bonuses for equipment. All depending on the setting dial (gritty, normal, heroic). Maybe 'heroic' is open ended, so there's no limitation, but for the others there is.
Keeping the fine tuning is IMHO a better way, than having only +3 stepping possibilities.

A bigger list with some 20+ Special Abilities would also be extremely helpful to show players how they work and what is possible. After playing some games it is easy to make up stuff on the fly, but it would certainly help new gamers to get a hang to the system - and to have a reference.

Expanding the use of Nova points would also help. Damage reduction comes into mind, as combat can be very deadly in a longer campaign and if the characters have no chance to repair their equipment.

But all that said: I think the game is good as it is. The rules, as they are, are not limiting, everything is possible. All that is missing are a few more guidelines how to use the system and some more examples.

The setting is good, I would love to see some more adventures for it. And maybe some star maps, showing the star systems and how they are connected. Along with some planet names and descriptions. That would make it easier to come up with some new ideas for the siege master.
Especially the human sector is very interesting, as it lays more or less in ruins and there is no central authority to enforce the law. Lots of opportunities here.

Mate, the game is good as it is, I could not want for more. I really appreciate the rules light system and the build system, so everything is more or less consistent and logical - at least it is explainable.

Ah, and if Troll Lords offer a full color version of the rule book, with superb interior graphics, a neat layout, I would also buy that game as a hard cover - even if shipping costs will ruin me. For the PDF version I would love to see a full color and a printer friendly one. Saving ink is always a good idea. :)

EDIT: One thing that I really find missing are rules for 'passive' checks, e.g. poison, radiation and such. Currently I am dividing these things into 'leathal' and 'deadly' to set the initial CB and then I modify it by the 'level' the hazard has (ranking from 1to 10). A character then uses his Physique and maybe Mental Endurance as a bonus to their rolls.
But something official would be cool.

_________________
--> StarSIEGE fan? Come to the SS:EH Wiki for trappings, ideas, and more!


Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:59 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 228 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.