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StarSiege Relaunch 
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Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
pansophy wrote:
What I am currently missing is this: stats for mundane creatures, so I can use them as a reference for aliens and fantasy monsters. I would love to see some kind of generic table and generic rules how to create creatures on the fly or at least fast (so that I do not need to start adding Special Abilities to get somewhere). Something like 'templates' I simply can use and get some kind of creature ...

I can say that this is on my "to do list" for SS2.0, but I haven't gotten there yet. The Fashioning System is being retooled, so it won't be 100% backwards compatible, but I'm trying to keep the spirit.

After the core book, the Troll Lords wanted some kind of equipment book, but I was envisioning doing it more like the old ICE Supplement "And a 10 Foot Pole..." with a bunch of different genre/setting examples statted out w/ SS2.0

Funny you should mention the "template" thing, because that was being developed for SS2.0. I'm going to stat out Equipment/Power Templates that you can easily plug in... FREX: I'll have a "Firearm" template or a "Laser" template that you can use as a basis and then build off of that.

I'm also working on something I'm calling "QuADS" which stands for "Quick And Dirty Souls" (or Someones, haven't decided yet), which is an attempt at a speedy NPC/Threat generation system so you can quickly throw things together if need be.

What animals are you hoping to see... maybe I can throw some together with the old system before I start making changes to the Fashioning System.

I'm also centralizing all of the optional rules (now called Tweaks) in a single appendix, so the default rules are presented uninterrupted. I'm going to have some boxed text along the way to point out places where I have optional rules created, though. And many of the optional systems are getting beefed up with more details/examples.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:56 am
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Mist Elf

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:28 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Woosh, that sounds good to me:) I am really looking forward to SS2.0 - looks like a really cool thing!

As for animals: all the mundane stuff would be nice:

small & big dog, coyote;
leopard, mule, wolf, emu;
lion, bear, camel, bull, boar, crocodile, horse, rhinoceros, tiger;
elephant, great white, saltwater croc;
tyrannosaurus, whale;
brontosaurus, Godzilla

Not to forget the typical movie aliens (Xenomorphs) and maybe some fantasy creatures.

It would be cool to have a size for all these animals, a quick stat block and some Special Abilities for them. This way it would be easy to add some stuff to make things look 'mutated' or alienized ;)

Attack, Defense, Armor, Damage, Skill Bundles, Attributes and Competency Rating as well as their basic wound/stress tracks - that would be nice to have as well.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:10 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
So, here is my first attempt at a new character sheet for StarSIEGE 2.0. Let me know what you think...


Attachments:
File comment: 1st Draft of 2.0 Character Sheet
sseh_char2.0.JPG
sseh_char2.0.JPG [ 179.34 KiB | Viewed 11203 times ]

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Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:51 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
nice sheet, but what happend to the Encumbrance system? I really liked it ...

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:02 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
pansophy wrote:
nice sheet, but what happend to the Encumbrance system? I really liked it ...

Still there, just slightly modified... now you get a number of Slots equal to your Load (which is Size plus Physique). You can carry any item that is two under your Size as a part of your Load, but cannot carry more items than your Load. Some items (i.e. with the Cargo tag) add to one's Load. Items that are one less than a character's Size cost three Load Slots. A character also carry one item over their Size and up to their Load, but cannot carry anything else.

I am also considering adding a slight twist... the Slots are numbered... so if you have a Load of 10 you have ten slots 1 through 10. You can easily access anything up to 1/2 your Load... so Slots 1 through 5 are considered "on hand" and can be easily used... anything else would require an action to pull out. Some items may have an "Extra Hand" special effect that grant you additional "on hand' Slots (like Web Gear, for example).

Still simple like the old rules, and keeps in line with the Cargo rules as they ended up

Or I may just keep what I had... this seems nice, just need to see how it plays out in playtesting.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:24 am
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Lore Drake
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I don't know if your looking for comments on aesthetics and useability, but here are my two cents.

Everything looks squishy and almost claustrophobic. I don't know what that tiny area, at the end, of special abilities is, but it looks like you'd be even hard-pressed to put a check or X there.

As far as the tables go, never end a table with white space unless you put it in a box. The hash marks have to go. Solid lines would look better.

I guess I can see how you'd want to make a one-sided character sheet, but with all that information I'd reconsider and go with the normal back and front character sheet.

My experience with gamers is they like space. Having to squint to see what you've tried to fit in a small area, or even more aggravating, not enough room to write everything.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:02 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Sir Ironside wrote:
I don't know if your looking for comments on aesthetics and useability, but here are my two cents.


I am indeed looking for comments on aesthetics and useability, so thanks. The real problem with this is that the JPG isn't really full sized, I just did a last minute screen cap once I found out the boards didn't accept PDFs. You know, I'll post a link to a PDF on my web site here in a bit....

Your comments are helpful... I have been torn on the one side vs. two sided build... I'm really close to the one-side, though... isn't that always the case.

As far as the hash marks... I thought they felt more visually interesting than solid lines... but I see your point about the ones at the end of the lines for special abilities (that one shouldn't be there... it's just demarcating the end of the line)... and the white space thing is still a "work in progress" to see if I can't find some space savings to move stuff around a bit more.

thanks for the insights... back to the drawing board.

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:30 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Yeah. Now THAT'S a character sheet for SSEH2. I like it very much.

~O

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Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:14 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Still there, just slightly modified... now you get a number of Slots equal to your Load (which is Size plus Physique). You can carry any item that is two under your Size as a part of your Load, but cannot carry more items than your Load. Some items (i.e. with the Cargo tag) add to one's Load. Items that are one less than a character's Size cost three Load Slots. A character also carry one item over their Size and up to their Load, but cannot carry anything else.

I am also considering adding a slight twist... the Slots are numbered... so if you have a Load of 10 you have ten slots 1 through 10. You can easily access anything up to 1/2 your Load... so Slots 1 through 5 are considered "on hand" and can be easily used... anything else would require an action to pull out. Some items may have an "Extra Hand" special effect that grant you additional "on hand' Slots (like Web Gear, for example).

Still simple like the old rules, and keeps in line with the Cargo rules as they ended up

Or I may just keep what I had... this seems nice, just need to see how it plays out in playtesting.


Hm, it sounds a bit complicated. Well not that complicated, but I think hardly a gamer will remember the rule during the game. The old system was easy: once you used up your slots, you're done. Buy some Backpacks to get extra packing space.

I like the idea of placing the specialities under their commonly used Skill Bundles. It makes things fast to look up and to judge what SB to use - at least initially.

Also keeping an untrained Speciality at '0' instead of a negative number makes me feel happy about the new SSEH2.

One of my player came up with this during a game session: instead of adding +6 for a Prime Skill Bundle to a roll, he always thinks in the reverse way. So he is subtracting 6 from each roll that is not a Prime skill. It makes the cumulated bonuses lower, while keeping the game the same ...

Example:
Gaming with TN 18:
Prime Skill Bundle: +6+4+4=+14, TN 18
Non-Prime Skill Bundle: +4+4=+8, TN18

Gaming with TN 12:
Prime Skill Bundle: +4+4=+8, TN 12
Non-Prime Skill Bundle: -6+4+4=+2, TN12

While using TN 12 as the standard, the game suddenly felt more gritty, although nothing really changed ...

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Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:37 pm
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Skobbit

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Dear Troll Lords and Creator of Star siege
I am writing to address the issue of star siege re-lunch and to offer my opinion
as a potential buyer of this your product.
One I find Castles and crusades and the siege engine in that version very gamer friendly and very
adaptable to gamer mind set. I do come from the old school of games genre and want that in my product.
When TSR CAME OUT WITH star Frontiers they too had made a similar mistake I feel you guys are making here with SS;EH or star siege event horizon.

If you would please permit me to explain I would be Grateful, because it might effect a product I am more welling to buy!

If you had not notice science fiction and space opera are about story toys, then we have why every want to be a jedi issues because we all like our mystic psionic powers in space.

So first and foremost what is wrong with castles and crusades in space?- Dragon star took and made that a very interesting approach, thus you have people that if very compatible would buy the game for the cross over- it also can provide technological issues for people who my just want to do Expedition to barran peaks type game.

SO I beg please do not make the mistake of Boot hill and Star frontiers – later much later TSR actually made buck rogers and used the Ad and D system for old buck and it got my attention, did it not yours>?

Science fiction is a Great place to have classic monster become playable races!

I run Castles and Crusades in my campaign called Dark moons and Gate citys chronicles
here I can use the Dwarves as heavy worlders and Elves as other species, as well as Halflings and then we get to lizardmen and others.

Science fiction has to have the following

open and expansible setting “ Like Star Trek or Like the old Battle star Galatica”
even Star Gate universe or Atlantis Type of programs.

We like our scores mid range I love having a 18 something or even a 19 0r 20.

I also want you to know maybe we need to start a gamers section for starsiege section or support group pre lunch and have people pre order the game to gather interest. But I want a space opera that is compatible with CASTLE AND Crusades- do not change my strength to physique – or my Wisdom to What ever, I think that STRENGTH-CONSTITUTION-DEXTERITY-INTELLIGENCE-WISDOM-CHARISM “ tell me why this is not compatible for science fiction?

and then there is the Toys , not tool kit, because honest I can set down and figure lazer pistol I want to be powerful so I want it to have 3d6 damage! No matter the creation rules you make up well change what I want as a game master! Making up design rules to me has always been silly if the game master
want something different, just show example if we like it we keep it, if not we change it, and we don;t need no sticking rule book that runs 128 page to do it!

What I want is ideals as a game master, and how to run a sci fi game. Give me a equipment list and
art and space vessels to ride and fight in, Look at Titan AE and Star chaser- Great setting types of space opera, and they work because they do not spend hours explaining things.

And why is it is that you think we have to go to a skill system?>
I think game wise the class system is fine, but just make multi-classing more prevalent in the future.
Science fiction Classes are more mini classes with specific and weaker abilities then Med evil setting, its because game wise and setting wise the education system is more versatile and technical originated.

Then you can set up steam puke in space and western game setting like your Pulp siege, the pulp setting uses classes and so should the star siege !

Then you can do fantasy setting that progressed to Edwardian age technological or even Castle and Crusades in spaaaaceeeee!
That what people want that what they expect and please it OK to do it!

Get Mike Steward to write it, he has done some excellent work before and gets it!
Your Fan and customer
Christopher Lee House aka Gaharis


Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:04 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
area_51_games wrote:
Dear Troll Lords and Creator of Star siege
I am writing to address the issue of star siege re-lunch and to offer my opinion
as a potential buyer of this your product.

Thanks for your input, but StarSIEGE: Event Horizon 2nd Edition will definitely follow the lead of the 1st Edition. It will not be a re-skinning of C&C into space, but its own entry in the SIEGE Engine line. There will be options provided to allow groups to incorporate aspects of C&C into SSEH (such as using the C&C attributes or building your own Classes to replace the skill system).

SSEH will be a tool-kit, but I will endeavor to make it even more complete than it was last time. It will also include more streamlined item creation (through use of Templates), a Trade mechanic, and more clearly defined optional rules.

I'm sorry if this approach might turn you off from wanting to purchase/play StarSIEGE: Event Horizon, but I do hope you'd give it a chance. Not every game has to be a derivation of another and some ideas are worthy enough to stand on their own.

I am, of course, open to specific suggestions for changes and such, but any requests to "just make C&C in space" or to completely abandon the path that was laid out in SSEH 1st edition will simply not hold water with me.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:44 pm
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Greater Lore Drake

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Looking foward to this one, having playtested on the original Starsiege.


Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:21 pm
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Skobbit

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
OK
I well now speak of solid marketing reason why you do not want to continue with star siege 1 printing.
one its false advertisement if its siege engine then why is its over 70 % different to its core game?
second and most important : if the game is at lease 85% compatible with Castles and Crusades, then you double your market potential to people who
may not normally buy science fiction, because it adds more possibilities to their C and C game ?

The Original game is very similar to Trued20- I do not like the game because I like scores in my abilities it old school and its fun, the -6 thru +6 stuff is very similar to true d20 second its not siege engine if you
change character creation
change ability names
change score system
change modifier system
change from class to skill system-
just because it uses TN 12/18 AND THE PRIME is not enough to attract me to the game and calling it the siege engine is false advertisement and
if you want to go and make your own game system then I think that cool and I might play it some day.
it just is BS to call something its not and push it at us because you think we will like it because you know better!
I know what I like - I know what I want to buy! Then just maybe it's similar to some of your other customers, I know I speak for 40 people in our Ohio Game Group in Columbus !
if this is what you do please do not call it Siege engine, because that would be a lie!
why because Pulp siege uses more then 85% of the castles and Crusades structure or engine
and when they call it siege system that what I want to see!
and if it don't hold water for you then please make your own game , but do not try to tell me what I want and do not want, And yes guess what I read your game and siege engine was a waste of paper- it show me how to build stuff that I could and do build every time I set down to write an adventure, and the rules do not cover, I figure it out, I want gladuis sword, that similar to a short sword, that works.
how many rules did that take?>
come on , you by no means have to make what I want, but I promise you I represent a percentage of your customers= and all though I do see that there are those who think the game is good, and if it was called anything but siege who knows , but to me if its not structured like siege why call it something it's not- I am not a suck up I know what I well buy- I can just buy Pu[p and make my own sci fi siege engine - and your company loses another $1200 dollars because it don't hold water for you!
why 1200? 40 x 39.99 ?
- now I sorry for the rant- but I am trying to save you guys some time and money- just make what you promise to make and do not make something
that is not what I as the customer do not really want!


Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:39 pm
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Mist Elf

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Well, for what it's worth: I do not like the C&C rules and am very pleased with the SS:EH approach.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:46 pm
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Ungern
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
area_51_games wrote:
OK
I well now speak of solid marketing reason why you do not want to continue with star siege 1 printing.
one its false advertisement if its siege engine then why is its over 70 % different to its core game?
second and most important : if the game is at lease 85% compatible with Castles and Crusades, then you double your market potential to people who
may not normally buy science fiction, because it adds more possibilities to their C and C game ?


area_51_games, the numbers you bandy about suggest you either:

A) don't understand what the SIEGE Engine actually is; or
B) don't understand what StarSIEGE actually is.

The core of both games is a 6-attribute spread, a system of "primes", and base difficulties of 12/18.

As such, they are both at their core 100% identical. I posit that everything else, in both games, isn't the SIEGE Engine so much as different riffs necessary for the genre they're emulating.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:53 pm
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
For what it's worth, the Troll Lords asked me to write them a game and then asked me to write the second edition. They must feel confident enough in the product to think that it both a) Warrants the SIEGE Engine logo and b) should be published. So the game I write will be the StarSIEGE: Event Horizon we've seen in the past with some modest improvements. If the Troll Lords don't want that game, they're welcome to find someone else to write it. I'd suggest taking your complaints to troll(at)trolllord.com rather than on these boards as they rarely, if ever, review them.

As far as the "false advertising" and "not 85% compatible"... well, that's all in the eye of the beholder, but I would say that SSEH is the first true SIEGE Engine game, as it's the only game in that line with the actual SIEGE Engine as the core mechanic, but that could just be my own bias. All I can say beyond that is that C&C isn't technically a SIEGE Engine game, so it's not false advertising... If you even track the Troll Lord's web site C&C is it's own category with "SIEGE Engine RPGs" as a separate category. Plus, no where in the advertising has it been stated to be compatible with C&C... in fact, I've been very up front about the fact that the game isn't C&C in space, so you really don't have much to go off of other than "it didn't live up to your personal expectations. It is a game powered by the SIEGE Engine, not by C&C... and much like games that are "Powered by GURPS" still make departures from the main GURPS line or different FATE games have all kinds of different iterations.

All that said, I *am* endeavoring to make the Fashioning system able to cross over into other games more easily... my hope is to make it so you can take an item Fashioned in SSEH and port it over to C&C with only a few tweaks. We'll see how this goes. Personally I think I've bent over backwards with this 2nd Edition to create something to appease the people who wanted C&C in space with optional rules... but I can only go so far.

I'm sorry, again, that you feel what I wrote was "a waste of paper". As of now I really don't have much more to say to you on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to voice your concerns, though. If you have any more constructive feedback to give on the actual rules of 1st edition that you'd like to see refined (rather than changed wholesale), by all means post here.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 pm
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Just do your thing Cheepy. Looking forward to seeing 2nd Ed. a whole bunch. Actually kinda bummed that the Troll Dudes haven't put this in their product list this year.

~O

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Omote wrote:
Just do your thing Cheepy. Looking forward to seeing 2nd Ed. a whole bunch. Actually kinda bummed that the Troll Dudes haven't put this in their product list this year.

~O

That's probably more my fault than theirs... I'm not really "Behind schedule" because there was never a schedule to speak of, but I really am not as far along in the second edition as I'd like to be... mostly I'm bogged down in the Fashioning system... trying to streamline it some while hoping to find a way to make the end results meaningful in other Troll Lord products... might just be a pipe dream to relinquish, but I want to at least try.

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:12 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
I'm sorry, again, that you feel what I wrote was "a waste of paper". As of now I really don't have much more to say to you on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to voice your concerns, though. If you have any more constructive feedback to give on the actual rules of 1st edition that you'd like to see refined (rather than changed wholesale), by all means post here.

As someone who gave you grief about it not being more like C&C (Really the only thing was naming of the attributes) I've grown to like it, and other than window dressing it is a true Seige Engine game. (Which we'll likely see something similar happen with Amazing Adventures.) Gone are the days that I want to learn a new system for a genre I want to play. Really with my long lay-off playing rpg's a good old fashioned fantasy game is what the doctor ordered. But, I know that I will once again want to play something other than fantasy. By that time it is nice to know that Starsiege will be there waiting for me, and owning the first edition gives me a very good idea as to what I'll be buying, knowing that there will be some positive tweaks that will only make it better.

I'm a convert and see no reason why you just shouldn't stay the course.

Can't please everybody all the time, but when you try you make nobody happy.

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:28 am
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Hlobane Orc
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I am glad I read this thread.

I presumed that if something was licensed or labeled for the Siege Engine then it was interchangeable with C&C.
That "85%" thing, "C&C in Space" or whatever you want to call it.
Same goes for the Pulp game.
That was one of the things that impressed me - mix and match.

Plus, if gamers knew how to play C&C then they could immediately play SS, nothing to learn.
Just pick a class, race, gear, etc and then head out.

Re-learning new game systems it not as much fun as it was 20 or 30 years ago.
I have things to do.

Is there going to be any sort of Beta test of the new SS:EH game?
I would recommend that as a way to go. Let people PLAY it and get feedback.
Send out PDFs (before "wasting paper") to selected individuals.
Try to work with the suggestions and recommendations after people get to play test it.
Then you would not alienate your target audience - and TLG will keep their reputation for caring about their customers.


Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:26 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
kajukenbo wrote:

Re-learning new game systems it not as much fun as it was 20 or 30 years ago.
I have things to do.

Just to be clear... if you understand the SIEGE Engine from C&C then you know how to run a SSEH game. The only difference is what numbers you add to your die rolls and there isn't a separate rule system for magic or combat. It's a unified SIEGE Engine game. Once more: if you understand C&C's SIEGE Engine then you understand how to play this game...


kajukenbo wrote:
Is there going to be any sort of Beta test of the new SS:EH game?
I would recommend that as a way to go. Let people PLAY it and get feedback.
Send out PDFs (before "wasting paper") to selected individuals.
Try to work with the suggestions and recommendations after people get to play test it.
Then you would not alienate your target audience - and TLG will keep their reputation for caring about their customers.

SSEH edition 1 was playtested and 2nd edition will be as well... a second edition will not be re-inventing the wheel (much)...

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:51 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
cheeplives wrote:
Just to be clear... if you understand the SIEGE Engine from C&C then you know how to run a SSEH game. The only difference is what numbers you add to your die rolls and there isn't a separate rule system for magic or combat. It's a unified SIEGE Engine game. Once more: if you understand C&C's SIEGE Engine then you understand how to play this game...

OK, so if that is the case than how is it NOT compatible with C&C?
What numbers are different?
How does SS handle combat (and magic?) differently from C&C?

Is there a PDF somewhere with the mechanics and how SS compares to C&C?
Is there a "quick start guide" and "intro adventure" somewhere?

Clearly it is different enough that it has ruffled some feathers and some customers feel that they have been "misled".

Thanks


Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:02 am
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Skobbit

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:00 am
Posts: 14
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
first and foremost let me apologize if I am coming on too strong or asinine.
I like and care very much for Troll lord products, they answer there own phone and try to put out the best product they can, as I be leave you are trying to do.
But Over the years people keep trying to improve some games that do not need Improving because its a product that the people are buying is the familiarity of that ideal and product- maybe I hope too much for games of old - that now are too clunky but had great ideals - Star frontiers, Space Opera- but I do want a castles and Crusades in space! not dragons and Elves with lights swords , no I mean a general space/science fiction system that try to handle general science fiction themes Like C & C and product of old tried to accomplish with Fantasy witch is a broad field/genre!

I feel that the version of Star Siege did not handle that concept very well of General science fiction base line. its a lot of tooling to tell a story.
c and C is about out of the box on to the table and play as you can get with an rpg.

All I want is the same for science fiction- but if I get so wrapped up in building then I might as well go to hero system or True twenty or Mutants and masterminds for the Rector set approach - I think you all can do better and that is what I am pushing for in SS:EH - with those other system I well get total support and so many options that I am lost most of the time and need three weeks as the gm before i can present a adventure!

so all I am asking is better , General science Fiction , and I do not think build your own is the concept I think you should go with, it's lazy and you can do better.
that is my specific two cents worth -
thank you for your time and I do appreciate you listening to my concerns and truly am not trying to be too insensitive and boorish!
your customer and Fan
Christopher Lee House


Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:03 am
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Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
kajukenbo wrote:
Clearly it is different enough that it has ruffled some feathers and some customers feel that they have been "misled".

Thanks

No, it's ruffled a single user's feathers who took the time to post. Pretty much every review of the game spoke highly of the system and poorly of the layout. There has been some issues taken that it is a skill-based game and that it lacks the D&D Attributes... there are plenty of threads here describing many of the differences between SSEH and C&C. In the end, SSEH is it's own game... it's not a D&D clone, it's not OGL... it uses the pure mechanic of the SIEGE Engine. Combat is a SIEGE check, Magic (really psionics, since it's sci-fi) is a SIEGE check... you roll your d20 and try to beat 12/18 depending on your Primes... instead of primes being tied to attributes they are tied to "Skill Bundles" which is a way of thinking of classes in SSEH... your class is your skill bundle... if you have the Combat Skill Bundle then you are some kind of fighter... if you have the Spiritual Skill Bundle then you're some kind of priest or maybe a Bard or therapist... I took the concept of the Primes and tied them to specific actions that occur in games (basically I deconstructed the "classes" from C&C and turned them into a bunch of skill bundles that you could then mix and match to custom build what you want).

But at its heart, the original SSEH was a toolkit... it presented options to let the group build the game they wanted to play. 2nd Edition will not be any different from that... there are "Tweaks" provided to help groups tailor the game they want. If you want Mutations (like from Gamma World) then there's a Tweak for that... if you want Cybernetics a la Cyberpunk 2020, then there's a tweak for that... it's designed to be modular in its approach to the rules. There are even tweaks for dialing back in "more C&C" like putting back in the traditional D&D stat line or using Levels instead of Skills... it's designed to give the group the power to put together the game they want.

And the biggest part of it is the ability to build things. To me, much of Sci-fi is about the trappings. It's about the Stock Light Freighters, the lightsabers, the Vipers... so the game has a straightforward ruleset to allow groups to tailor build items, weapons, tools, armors, vehicles, mutant powers, psionics, and special abilities... and they all follow the same single rules. As such you just have to learn one path and can build whatever you want... and it's presented with a consistent rule set to balance the items built. Basically I saw games like Traveller and such that have rules for building spaceships, but if you wanted to put together a new fighter or build your own weapon you were either out of luck or needed a different set of rules. In SSEH you can build whatever you want and it all follows the same rules. Same thing goes for creating your own alien races and such... they follow the same rules.

The game will provide plenty of examples and starting equipment and ships as well as examples of how to quickly modify the provided equipment/vehicles to tailor them to your setting without needing to reinvent the wheel if you don't want. The Troll Lords have asked that the core book be setting agnostic, rather than include the original setting provided in the boxed set with a later release going into the provided setting of Victory 2442. As it stands, SSEH 2nd Edition is going to be as ready to play from the outset as I can make it... you'll just need to plug it into whatever style of sci-fi you want to play.

I think the real issue with making a generic sci-fi game over a generic fantasy game is that there really isn't as much of a "Generic" sci-fi setting... generic fantasy needs to really feel like some Vance, a dash of Tolkien, and a little bit of Howard and Burroughs and some old myths and you have a pretty generic fantasy realm... Sci fi can encompass Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Gibson's Neuromancer, Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Star Wars, Star Trek, or the Terminator films... there isn't a set generic feel to a sci-fi setting... the closest might be traveller, but even if you look at that there are a bunch of weird assumptions beyond golden or silver age sci-finess. So, I went the toolkit route. Rather than trying to create some generic sci-fi world that can't possibly be done (do you do Psionics or leave them out? What about cyborgs? Mutants? Medical Abominations? Weird Science? What do you leave out?) I created a unified toolkit to let players add and subtract what they want from their settings... Want to use this to play a game about the Colonial Marines vs. some Xenomorphs... got it... want to recreate Star Trek? Go for it... so it will require a little work from the end-user, but the trade off is that you really would only need to learn this one game to play all kinds of sci-fi stories.

I've gone on long enough about all of this. I'll try to post some more sneak peaks as I get things that feel like they need to be seen and I'll definitely let anyone know who PMs me their interest in the playtest when it's ready.

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Author of StarSIEGE: Event Horizon


Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:32 am
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Skobbit

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:00 am
Posts: 14
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
the way I see a basic general space/science fiction role playing game is set up very mush like fantasy.
you have staple races and Careers/classifications aka Classes

you have the seven Species categories
Animal-oid humanoid - Dog men, Cat men tiger men, Winged men < very flash Gorden
Machines men / androids cyborgs and robots
shapeshifters/blobs metamorphs
Grays / intellectual advance but physically weak types humanoids
Human/hominieds - Cyborgs , mutants , Trans Gene Men
Lizard men/ dinosaur, slestak,
Bugmen/ insectoids
*Alien/ something totally alien that no one well understand or even want to play

then your classes
are simple and very broad just like fantasy
Agent
Combatant
Explorer
Techno-mancer
Mystic

no mater what someone is they can easily fall into those five categories
I see no need to change the scoring system 1- 24 is good enough with modifiers
rolled randomly- and worked with, by buying equipment or augmentation or backgrounds.
that is the simple structure of a science fiction game that is right out of the box and it fits all science fiction models and setting by just dropping the items that don't fit!
the reason this works is its been proven to be the most playable just like the fantasy model. its not so much about true fantasy as the Genre of the Fantasy rpg, well the same thing is true about science fiction! its about the most open and playable science fantasy!
instead of calling your game star siege maybe you should be writing SIEGE ENGINE the Core Book!


Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:03 am
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Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 373
Location: Behind my eyes
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
area_51_games wrote:
the way I see a basic general space/science fiction role playing game is set up very mush like fantasy.

Let me just say this as plainly as possibly: what you're suggesting just isn't going to happen. At least not with my name as the author. When I designed SSEH there was no bait and switch to the Troll Lords. They knew what the game was going to look like and they WANTED me to write that game. SSEH existed as a fan-made PDF for years before they asked me to clean it up and publish it. They wanted me to DESIGN a game, not re-skin C&C. I'm not going to get the original text of C&C and just find/replace Agent for Thief and Combatant for Fighter.... I'm not going to rename Bows to be Laser Pistols and just call it a day.

I'm sorry you want something else, but what you're asking for isn't StarSIEGE: Event Horizon... it's some other game. If you're not interested in StarSIEGE: Event Horizon, then I'm sorry. Feel free to write your own re-skin of C&C with some sci-fi like names and submit it to the Trolls... they are very cool guys and if they like what you've presented then they might take you up on it.

I'm really done with this argument... I understand your perspective and while I see there is some merit to putting out a game that is just C&C with Fantasy stuff replaced with Sci-fi stuff, there isn't enough merit in that idea for me to actually write it. StarSIEGE: Event Horizon, at this point, has it's own identity and will continue with it rather than re-invent itself as a uninspired re-tread of C&C.

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:39 am
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Skobbit

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:00 am
Posts: 14
Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I again am saying that what you have written has merit but its not science fiction role-playing its the siege engine the core rules, and that if you polled customers they would tell you that one in five might be interested in a rector set rule book! where most want a game that is complete and ready to play/
you keep telling me that you are not interested in writing a game that C and C re-skinned which I keep saying its not the C AND C re-skinned but the structure to the Fantasy rpg / science fiction/space opera that most think of when they pick up star-siege and the more you explain its a construction kit! to build your own game most who already own point buy systems or build your own games like hero system and Mutants and masterminds are not going to be interested!
the consumer wants that tanky green troll taste from Castles and Crusades in their new shiny science fiction cereal too!


Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:12 pm
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Lore Drake
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 am
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I know that there is a lot going into Starseige, but has anyone considered to do a pdf-based spreadsheet, like the one that; EABA Stuff uses? EABA Stuff is a work of genius and makes building things, from scratch, the things that your game world needs?

I know that the spread sheet comes bundled with the actual book in; EABA Stuff, but I don't see why this program couldn't be sold separately from Starseige. I own; EABA stuff and find the spreadsheet very useful in creating things I need, much more quickly that having to flip trough the book trying to make things I want, which is probably the biggest complaint that I've heard so far.

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:45 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
Pansophy made a program for building things, it's on the wiki (but when I tried to download the Mac version last night the link was broken).

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:01 pm
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Red Cap

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Post Re: StarSiege Relaunch
I have one I've built in Excel as I'm tweaking the numbers for 2nd Ed (and to make conversion of the old stuff easier). Once it's done I'm sure I'll put it out for everyone to use.

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Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:05 pm
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